LS2 vs LS3 differences?
 

I'm looking for a breakdown in the differences between the LS2 and LS3 motors. I haven't driven either extensively but I'm told by those who have that the LS3 drives like it has a LOT more power than the LS2....much more than the ~30hp advertised.

At the moment, I'm looking to upgrade from my blown 97 (recently totaled after a minor accident) to a 2005 model. I will no doubt be tinkering with performance all around including a planned E-force SC, Blower can, full exhaust and possibly some additional internal engine work.

I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to spend the extra $$ for an LS3 car or if minor work will make the LS2 comparable.

I could tell a noticeable difference between my old 2006 LS2 compared to my current 2009 LS3. Extra HP and TQ along with better gearing 2.56 vs. 2.73 makes a difference.

BTW this thread is going to get interesting :leaving:.

:lurk:

driven both. noticeable HP difference for sure. had to blow my LS2 to cure the issue.

:rock:

Not to highjack the thread but this questions goes along with it. Can a 2005-2007 LS2 car be replaced by a LS3 engine without major electrical work? Are they a direct swap?

Here is a link to a dyno thread that compares the ls2 & ls3 with similar bolt ons.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...-cold-air.html

I had an LS2 06 and went to an LS3 09. The LS3 is stronger performance wise but it also gets less gas milage. The LS2 runs smoother, the LS3 runs a little roughter. I am told thats because of a stronger Cam. I will still take the LS3 over the LS2.

I do agree ( and also wish I had one) the LS3's are an upgrade and a superior engine than the LS2. :yesnod: However, for ALL the extra horsepower and torque, I must ask, why aren't they faster??? :crazy:
Perhaps, the LS3's are what they say, and we poor schmuck LS2's are maybe, underated or maybe even just plain lucky. :woohoo: I could live with that! :cool:

I thought that the LS3 owners(with skinny butts) were getting 32-33 MPG on the highway. What are the LS2 owners getting?

I just drove from NYC to Chicago (900 miles) and got an average of 27.3mpg. Some of that was in 5th gear due to hills, and some was slower (55mph) due to construction.

2005 05 Z51, 6spd.

Before I bought my 05, I test drove an 08. The 08 definitely had more "seat of the pants." However, my 05 has the 2.73 rear end gear, and I suspect the 08 had the performance gear. Therefore, I have nothing meaningful to contribute. ;)

ls3:cheers:

Ok here's an opinion that won't find a big following here... :eek:

IMHO, anything over 300hp is more than enough to have some reasonably spirited fun driving on public roads. Having 400hp vs 436hp makes a difference on the strip or a road course but not that much difference for daily driving. How many people warn that turning off the nannies, ( which limit performance ), is irresponsible while driving on public roads, yet make the difference between the LS2 / LS3 seem like night and day? :woohoo:

An interesting comparison would be LS2(nannies off) vs LS3(nannies on)

My experience exactly.

there is a simple explanation for that that is little known:

the SAE Horsepower scale is not linear, from 0 to 400 it is, but from 400 to 436 it is not, each HP from 400 to 436 is actually twice as large as those under 400 or over 436

at 437 the scale is once again linear on up to infinity

that is why the LS3 feels so much more awesome than it's meager 30 HP rating increase over the LS2 would suggest

30 HP is not enough difference to feel a "seat of the pants" difference outright! Gears will! On the track, there is only a couple 10ths of a difference so, it's not a big difference. Sure the LS3 is faster, giving everything else the same. But I bet you can put 87 octain gas in the LS3 and put 94 octain in the LS2 and the LS2 might even feel faster from 0-60. Yes 30 HP can be felt, but not "wow" factor. Now climb into the Z06 from either LS2 or LS3...then you will get the true "seat of the pants" difference!:rock: And yes, I have driven all three many times. As said before, the gears make more of a difference "feel wise", than 30 HP.

No.

Checking the numbers for 1/4 mile, using the top 10 stock LS2 vs. the top 10 stock LS3 as recorded here in the list (scroll down)

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...lenge-258.html

LS2
Fastest Speed 115.58
Fastest Time 12.412
Average Speed 114.26

LS3
Fastest Speed 122.05
Fastest Time 12.034
Average Speed 117.02.

LS3 Improvements listed here:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/new-ls...s2-vs-ls3.html

Post #3 mentions A variable valve timing setup. If this is true, I'm Defiantly interested.

I didn't see a mention of VVT -- and in any case, the LS3 doesn't have it.

The LS3 is simply the next step up. Like the LS1 to the LS2.

The powerband is meatier, the engine is fundamentally "stronger", and it packs more punch.

Of course it uses more fuel. It makes more power and isn't radically different in efficiency.

What you are not listing is that the car is not just an engine. To get an LS3, you need to get an '08. When getting an '08, you get the TR6060 transmission, better steering feel, and a host of other "little things" that amount to much more than "30bhp".

For efficiency, the goal is to have a motor that CAN make power on throttle, but at cruise can get by making only as much power as needed to maintain speed. An ideal motor would make very little power at a constant vehicle speed.

I'm not really sure what the differences in transmissions are. Any reference help on how the models differ and how it affects driving feel would be appreciated.

I test drove both LS2 and LS3.. before choosing the LS2, and here are the reasons I went with the LS2.

1) I saved atleast $5k buying an '07 instead of '08. Prices really skyrocket when looking at both model years. Saving $5k is ALOT for essentially the same vehicle when you really think about it.

2) There was a small seat of the pants difference, but realistically 400hp is already more than hp for anything I'm going to do on a public road. If I was looking to hit the track more, drag race the car, or otherwise go for some large HP number I would have chose the LS3 car.

3) The LS2 is rated 18/28mpg vs 16/26mpg for the LS3. With gas now $4.60 a gallon for premium in the DC area.. every little bit counts. Driving the car home from Kansas City, MO to the Washington, DC area.. I averaged 28.5mpg driving speeds between 75-80mph.

4) The LS2 is available with the Z51 package, which gives quicker acceleration and slight shorter gearing. I'd much rather have a Z51 LS2.. than a non-Z51 LS3 and stay within my budget.

5) If in the next year or so, if I find that I'm really concerned about power. I wont bother modding my LS2 at all. I'll simply trade up to a '08 Z06 or a '10 GS with NPP. My main reason for wanting the LS3.. was the smoother transmission, better steering feel, and black/CF center dash. But I simply didnt think it was worth the $5k upgrade when it was all said and done for a car that essentially looks identical (the '07 vs the '08).

When you start adding in all of the "little things" that coming with the '10 GS.. like widebody kit, bigger brakes/rotors, wider wheels, NPP exhaust, factory integrated BT, performance traction control.. then it starts to become a more attractive upgrade to me and one that seems well worth paying for. Of course it will be much more of $5k difference.. but in a year or so.. there will definitely be some 3 year old '10 GSs or 5 year old Z06's floating around in my price range.

The EPA revised the gas mileage estimates that is shown on the car's window sticker to better reflect the way people actually drove their cars. This just happened to go into effect at the same time that the LS2 was replaced by the LS3. If you check the gas mileage of the Z06, you will find the LS7's gas mileage also dropped at the exact same time, even though the LS7 did not gain any additional displacement or horsepower, as did all cars of all manufacturers, accross the board.

:iagree:
We took two almost identical road trips of over 4,000 miles in our 2006 and then 2009, both A6. Only difference in the cars was the LS2 vs LS3, and the LS3 also has the performance axle.
LS2 = 25.8 mpg
LS3 = 25.3 mpg

Both trips, lots of high speeds but also crawling in traffic at times.

From EPA's website...

"In December 2006, EPA issued updated test methods to determine the fuel economy estimates (city and highway) that appear on the window stickers of all new cars and light trucks sold in the U.S., beginning with 2008 models. For more information about the updated methods, see EPA's Final Rule."


The LS3 is a marvel of an engine. Increased displacement, increased horsepower and increased performance and it still get basically the same gas mileage as it's predecessor. Now if only the 427 ci, 505 HP LS7 could get 30+ MPG on the highway....oh, wait, it does.

The LS1 to LS2 was a difference of 50HP. THAT can be felt.

Everyone's Butt-O-Meter is calibrated differently.

When we went from our 2001 A4 (350 hp) to the 2006 A6 (400 hp), I could barely notice the difference.

But going from the 2006 (400 hp) to the 2009 (436 hp) was like WOW!

I can't explain that, but that's how it felt to me.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:,we always got north of 30mpg with the 05 auto,,,and find it hard to get 30mpg with the 08

now very often will we get north of 30mpg with the 08 auto,

:iagree::iagree:,,,the biggest difference between the 05 and 08 was the transmission,,,it is very tame compared to the 05 auto 4 speed,,,at 30-45 mph the 05,if it hooked up was crazy when you floored it,,,,the 08 auto much nicer,,,,:thumbs:

LS3:
Better heads
Better intake manifold
Better cam profile on the intake side
More cubes
Slightly less compression
Some block enhancements

Vehicle:
Some interior bits
Enhanced feel for the steering rack
TR 6060 trans I believe, stronger and supposed smoother shifting


LS2:
Slightly more compression

I would think that hwy MPG is best calculated by putting the car in cruise at highway speed on a level road and reading the instant MPG. Considering speed limits on highways rarely exceed 80 and are usually closer to 65-70, I think this would be a fair real-world estimate of what you can expect if you're actually cruising.

I averaged 29.4 according to my car's calculation.

08 with Headers, Xpipe, Intake.

Gas Mileage shouldnt be an issue

When the EPA first started with their estimates the speed limit was 55 MPH(1974-1987) and that was the speed that was used in their highway estimates. When they revised their estimates, it was based party on people driving at higher speeds then 55 MPH.

I'm an LS2 owner. The engine is very reliable and maintenance free. I personally can't justify the expense of acquiring another C6 just for the LS3 engine upgrade. I am waiting for the C7. I will just limp along with only 400 hp for the time being.

Good attitude!
Any C6 is a great car.

Two friends in our club have 2005 A4 Corvettes, and they have just as much fun as the rest of us.

Ls3
 

2010 COUPE LS3 CAI,PORTED TB,PORTED INTAKE,B&B EXHAUSTand a SPRINT BOOSTER!.... pulls harder than my 2006 LS2 same mods... heres a good word the LS3 seems more "refined"

:iagree:

This is why I just pulled the trigger on the LS3.

For some of the people that say a good price cant be had I dissagree :D

I just got a 2008 with 25k miles MN6 1LT with NPP and a few other options for 31k! :rock:

Got my 2008 Z51 1LT about a year ago stock (NPP exaust and Z51 gears). Car felt a tad quicker then my buddies B&B bullet Axle back only 2005 LS2 3LT (I drove both). We raced, he beat me 2 times from a second gear roll. I am lost for words still. Just straight up pulled me from 3rd gear by like a car every time.

Maybe my car was spinning a bit in second but I don't recall it doing it. I shifted perfectly and my car weighs less then his and I weigh less then him. A B&B axle back isn't going to give his heavier 3LT LS2 35-40hp to beat my lighter 1LT LS3? I swear he has nothing else done to his LS2 unless the previous owner tuned it, but I doubt it. Makes no sense to me at all.

Last weekend, my buddy and I switched cars on a 150 mile road trip through the mountains of western NC. His car is an 05 Z51 Vert Manual, mine is an 08 Z51 Vert Manual. I didn't really notice a difference in acceleration performance and our gas mileage
was nearly identical, as it has been in numerous similar runs. I did notice a difference in the steering (possible larger steering wheel on the 05?) and the shifter throw on the 05 was further. The seats in my car felt more supportive and both cars are 3LT's. His car has the Firestone R/F's and mine has the Goodyear Supercars. The 05 felt like the tires were softer in the turns, but their grip was very good. We were driving aggressively; I got a 1.02 in my HUD - the highest I've ever seen in 28,000 miles. His car has 17,000 miles; mine 28,000.

Talking to the drag strip hounds in our club, I was told that typical times for the LS2 A6 were around 13.5 @ 106 mph, LS3 A6 w/performance axle around 12.7 @ 114 mph.

Some cars run faster, some slower, and different conditions make an even bigger difference; but on their strip those numbers are said to be a good comparison between the two engines.

Yeah, I know- your car is faster. But these numbers are an average of multiple cars on multiple days with multiple drivers.

If you plan on heavily modifying. I wouldn't fret over the difference. If your going to upgrade IM, Heads and cam anyway. -Wade-

I think you've got some bum numbers there.:( A stock A4 LS1 C5 turned about 13.5 @ 106. An A6 LS2 turned an average around 12.8 @ 108 and an A6 LS3 turns around 12.6 @ 110.

Now I've seen stock LS3 A6's turn in the very low 12's right out of the box. What I'm talking about is average and in most cases "advertised" speeds. The M6's usually all are advertised to turn .2 secs. faster. Real numbers at the track vary all over the place, but, LS3's usually on average turn at least .2 seconds fasters than LS2. I know, I have a fairly good running LS2. :yesnod:

The LS3 also has different heads, intake manifold, cam and higher pressure fuel injectors. The LS2s are also prone to oil leaks this was fixed with a more robust gasket package in the LS3. A swap could be done but the whole computer would also have to be replaced as well.

Are we talking oil leaking out of the motor or a blow by (oil consumption) issue?

First of all the 05 doesn't have the LS3 engine.

The 08 model was the 1st year for the LS3 V8.
I traded an 05 for an 08 and yes the 08 does
feel more powerful than the advertised 36hp.

Especially if you pull the fuse. :rock:



http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...ne-tmr-ls3.jpg

Well 2001 and some early 02s had a ring oil blow by issue. In general however the LS2 has some known rear seal oil leak issues as well as around the heads, the upper head leaks are an easy fix however and quite common even on the LS1s due to the gasket material that was used at the time.

are these things that can be corrected with say an aftermarket seal or is it inherent with the design?

Bit of a newbie here, but, I am looking to get a 2010/2011 Grand Sport with the manual tranny and dry sump set up. What differences does the LS3 that are hand built have with the regular LS3 and LS2's?

I know the 08+ base coupes and GS's have the Tremec 6060 for the manuals... what did the base Vette's have before for the manual transmission?

Forgive my ignorance :hide: but what are "nannies"?

There was no LS2 or LS3 in 2001. You are thinking of the LS6 in the C5 Z06,where some had to be reringed due to blow by. And it was corrected in the 02-04 Z06.

The standard motor in '01 was the LS1,which had no oil issues.

Traction control system - limits rear wheel spin by limiting the power to them.

Active handling system - Attempts to keep the car from getting sideways by limiting power and applying brakes to individual wheels as necessary.

They are controlled by the button on the center console. See your owners manual for details. :cheers:

More info on the Manual Trannies please.....

LS2 has T56?????
LS3 has TR6060 and substantially smoother linkage! Love to LS3 trannie/ linkage combo!

I actually had a long post to share but hit a bad key and lost all of it!!! Maybe I will recreate some at a later date?

I been looking for a c6 for some time 05-08. Im coming from a TBSS with the ls2. It seems to be hard to find a 08 for under 30. Should i hold off and try to wait to get a ls3 or a ls2 one should be fine. I plan on doing full bolts over time with either one.

Funny topic... Broke the number 5 piston on my 2007 C6 LS2 the other day after running 530 rwhp via an e-force 599 kit. Had plenty more HP but ran the injectors to 101 duty cycle. Nonetheless, no stroker, simply building the LS2 with top of the line everything, and dropping the compassion to 9.5 as thats better for boost. So if you plan to add horsepower I would suggest LS3 as the LS2 has had problems with the number 5 and 7 piston breaking...

Stock injectors?

It's more than the engine differences. They made significant changes to the entire car when they changed to the LS3.

New GS owner here. I took my GS to BIR a week ago after doing the breakin and what I like about the LS3 is no heat soak. I had a 4.6 mustang with Kenne Bell that put down 390 rwhp on a dynojet. It's nice not to have to run a power adder to run fast. Plus the GS handles better, tranny's better, whole car is better.

I was looking at the E-Force blower, but think I'll wait for awhile. :D

The injectors are 52lbs ones which came with the kit. We are installing 60lbs ones now. Also had a mustang with the TR6060 transmission and cant say I was impressed as they have serious second gear synco issues. I believe there was also a recall?

IMO - pay what you need to get the LS3 Corvette over the LS2 especially if you will be making Power Modifications. The $$$ outlay will be well worth it. Winter and the C7's are coming SOON. Depending on your driving desires - LS7's start getting somewhat close to your price range in in the next 12 months too. (MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!)

The LS2 produces 400 bhp@6000rpm and 400 lbf·ft@4400rpm from a slightly larger displacement of 5,967 cc (5.967 L; 364.1 cu in). The LS2 uses the "243" casting heads used on the LS6 (although without the sodium filled valves), a smaller camshaft, and an additional 18 cubic inches. The compression of the LS2 was also raised to 10.9:1 compared to the LS1s 10.25:1 and the LS6s 10.5:1

the LS3 was introduced as the Corvette's new base engine for the 2008 model year. It produces 430bhp (321Kw)@5900rpm and 424lb-ft (575Nm)@4600rpm without the optional Corvette exhaust and is SAE certified. The block is an updated version of the LS2 casting featuring a larger bore of 4.06 in (103 mm) creating a displacement of 6,162 cc (6.162 L; 376.0 cu in). It also features higher flowing cylinder heads sourced from the L92, a more aggressive camshaft with 0.551" lift, a 10.7:1 compression ratio, a revised valvetrain with 6 mm (0.24 in) offset intake rocker arms, a high-flow intake manifold and 47 lb/hr fuel injectors from the LS7 engine.

The L76/L92/LS3 cylinder heads use 2.165 in (55.0 mm) intake valves, and 1.59 in (40 mm) exhaust valves. The large valves, however, limit maximum rpm - 6000 in the L76 (with AFM), and 6600 in the LS3 (with hollow stem valves).

Hope this answers the questions u guys had.

If you are looking to modify your Corvette it may not make sense to go for the LS3 even with the extra horse power. I record the 1/4 times for the C6 generation and have attended many track rentals. The largest difference between the LS2 & LS3 with similar modifications at the same track side by side is approximately two tenths and more often than not the elapsed times are very close.

For discussion sake, make the difference 3 tenths is that difference in performance worth the difference in price.

Please note: the 05 has the weakest rear of all C6s and a few other problems. If you are considering a blower then you should also be thinking of other upgrades that may be necessary with the addition of the blower.

I would suggest that you make a list, check the cost and then add the price of each car. Good luck :thumbs:

:iagree:

My friend and I went to Raceway Park in Englishtown on July 30. His car is an '07 coupe, A6, CAI, headers and exhaust, 160 degree stat, 1.8 rocker arms, 100lb. valve springs, and a tune from one of the best shops in the tri-state area. My car is a bone-stock '08 coupe, A6, 2.73 gears. Air temp was 92 degrees. His best was 12.62 @ 113.89; my best was 12.74 @ 113.49. I think on a cooler day, I could run him down, as my coolant temp was over 220 degrees at the track that day( I believe the computer starts pulling timing advance when the temp hits 196).

You can tell yourself this if u don't get an LS3

The OP was looking for feedback / opinions and I offered mine. I don't use the forum to rationalize my decisions. Do you have any relevant opinions to offer?

About a month ago I traded my 07 coupe (LS2) for an 09 (LS3) convertible. I have to be honest, I don't notice that much of a difference in power. I am not sure if the vert is geared differently though and I am a pretty conservative driver. I do have the dual-mode exhaust on the newer one and that makes the car louder and seemingly faster when I mash the throttle but quite honestly both cars are way "faster" than I can handle. I find that both can easily get to 100MPH+ on my short entrance ramp to the interstate and that's not even with the pedal to the floorboards! I love the power but unless you are going to put the car on a track or a dyno, I am not sure its quantifyable.
That said, the 09 steers easier and quicker (jury is still out on whether I like that) and like others have said there are some interior changes that make the car nicer.
I say buy what you can afford. I love the vert but I regret the purchase because the payments are much higher than the 07 coupe. The 07 was a fine car and the LS2 worked flawlessly. I hope the LS3 gives me the same durability.