[Z06] Concerned about double normal iron in oil with mix of street and track driving
10-24-2013, 12:37 AM
#41
Team Owner
Final chapter on this topic was the total destruction of the engine from dropping the #5 exhaust valve.
On September 15th, two weeks and 500 miles after that great oil report, while under WOT acceleration down a straight section of track (at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana), at around 4500 RPM, it just quit. No unusual sounds. It was as though I had reached for the ignition and turned it off. I didn’t hear anything abnormal in my GoPro recording either. I did however have a huge cloud of smoke behind me. GM will fix it under warranty, but it did take five weeks and I had to hire a lawyer to make this happen - a long a story for another thread someday. Here is a link to pictures of the engine http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/Ra...ary/Dead%20LS7 I would have expected all this damage to have made a lot of noise, but I didn’t hear it.
So, the big question is will the new create LS7 have the same potential problem? Or, does the often quoted comment from GM “The quality issue has been contained as of Feb 2011 with 100% inspection of all heads” mean the problem is a thing of the past? In other words, are new LS7s still dropping exhaust valves? Also, I wonder if there is there a connection between the long stretch of high iron in the oil and it becoming normal just before an exhaust valve dropped. Maybe extremely worn out valve guides? Anyway, after my warranty is over I need to decide if I should be replacing valve train components as many others have done to solve this problem.
On September 15th, two weeks and 500 miles after that great oil report, while under WOT acceleration down a straight section of track (at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana), at around 4500 RPM, it just quit. No unusual sounds. It was as though I had reached for the ignition and turned it off. I didn’t hear anything abnormal in my GoPro recording either. I did however have a huge cloud of smoke behind me. GM will fix it under warranty, but it did take five weeks and I had to hire a lawyer to make this happen - a long a story for another thread someday. Here is a link to pictures of the engine http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/Ra...ary/Dead%20LS7 I would have expected all this damage to have made a lot of noise, but I didn’t hear it.
So, the big question is will the new create LS7 have the same potential problem? Or, does the often quoted comment from GM “The quality issue has been contained as of Feb 2011 with 100% inspection of all heads” mean the problem is a thing of the past? In other words, are new LS7s still dropping exhaust valves? Also, I wonder if there is there a connection between the long stretch of high iron in the oil and it becoming normal just before an exhaust valve dropped. Maybe extremely worn out valve guides? Anyway, after my warranty is over I need to decide if I should be replacing valve train components as many others have done to solve this problem.
I was there the week before on Sept 8
My first motor let go at WSIR going into turn 8. I didn't hear anything either or anything on my GoPro. Just lost control driving in my own oil/coolant slick.
Do you have video?
Sure would like to hear your attorney story.
Can you make either of the last 2 Corvette Challenge events?
DH
10-24-2013, 02:12 AM
#42
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Hi Howie,
I just posted the video of the engine failing:
The reason it took an attorney was the local GM factory rep initially denied the warranty because “we did an Internet search on your name and found that you raced it.” I assume he found my YouTube videos. I did initially tell them it happened on a freeway on ramp, since a friend suggested it would be better if they did not know it happened on the track. In hindsight I don’t know if that was the best plan. But, I came clean with the true story and went on to argue that I don’t race my car, I participate in HPDE / track day events. GM kept coming back with race track = racing, so no warranty. My lawyer took over and made a case based on things including the advertising for the car, references in the owner’s manual regarding “track preparation,” numerous salesmen telling customers it’s OK to take their Corvettes to HPDE type events, and documenting YouTube videos of “C7 Corvette Stingray Specialist Training” track activity at Spring Mountain doing the same thing on the track that I do in my videos. Plus many examples of GM replacing engines known to have failed at track events. GM approved the warranty yesterday. Just one day before they knew I was going to tow my car to my own mechanic, pay him to replace the engine and sue them for the cost. I wasn’t going to wait 20 months as another CF member had to.
I think it will be some time before I get back on a track. I sure miss it. Maybe two weeks until I get my car back plus about one month for the break in miles.
I just posted the video of the engine failing:
The reason it took an attorney was the local GM factory rep initially denied the warranty because “we did an Internet search on your name and found that you raced it.” I assume he found my YouTube videos. I did initially tell them it happened on a freeway on ramp, since a friend suggested it would be better if they did not know it happened on the track. In hindsight I don’t know if that was the best plan. But, I came clean with the true story and went on to argue that I don’t race my car, I participate in HPDE / track day events. GM kept coming back with race track = racing, so no warranty. My lawyer took over and made a case based on things including the advertising for the car, references in the owner’s manual regarding “track preparation,” numerous salesmen telling customers it’s OK to take their Corvettes to HPDE type events, and documenting YouTube videos of “C7 Corvette Stingray Specialist Training” track activity at Spring Mountain doing the same thing on the track that I do in my videos. Plus many examples of GM replacing engines known to have failed at track events. GM approved the warranty yesterday. Just one day before they knew I was going to tow my car to my own mechanic, pay him to replace the engine and sue them for the cost. I wasn’t going to wait 20 months as another CF member had to.
I think it will be some time before I get back on a track. I sure miss it. Maybe two weeks until I get my car back plus about one month for the break in miles.
10-24-2013, 06:58 AM
#43
Le Mans Master
Final chapter on this topic was the total destruction of the engine from dropping the #5 exhaust valve.
On September 15th, two weeks and 500 miles after that great oil report, while under WOT acceleration down a straight section of track (at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana), at around 4500 RPM, it just quit. No unusual sounds. It was as though I had reached for the ignition and turned it off. I didn’t hear anything abnormal in my GoPro recording either. I did however have a huge cloud of smoke behind me. GM will fix it under warranty, but it did take five weeks and I had to hire a lawyer to make this happen - a long a story for another thread someday. Here is a link to pictures of the engine http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/Ra...ary/Dead%20LS7 I would have expected all this damage to have made a lot of noise, but I didn’t hear it.
So, the big question is will the new create LS7 have the same potential problem? Or, does the often quoted comment from GM “The quality issue has been contained as of Feb 2011 with 100% inspection of all heads” mean the problem is a thing of the past? In other words, are new LS7s still dropping exhaust valves? Also, I wonder if there is there a connection between the long stretch of high iron in the oil and it becoming normal just before an exhaust valve dropped. Maybe extremely worn out valve guides? Anyway, after my warranty is over I need to decide if I should be replacing valve train components as many others have done to solve this problem.
On September 15th, two weeks and 500 miles after that great oil report, while under WOT acceleration down a straight section of track (at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana), at around 4500 RPM, it just quit. No unusual sounds. It was as though I had reached for the ignition and turned it off. I didn’t hear anything abnormal in my GoPro recording either. I did however have a huge cloud of smoke behind me. GM will fix it under warranty, but it did take five weeks and I had to hire a lawyer to make this happen - a long a story for another thread someday. Here is a link to pictures of the engine http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/Ra...ary/Dead%20LS7 I would have expected all this damage to have made a lot of noise, but I didn’t hear it.
So, the big question is will the new create LS7 have the same potential problem? Or, does the often quoted comment from GM “The quality issue has been contained as of Feb 2011 with 100% inspection of all heads” mean the problem is a thing of the past? In other words, are new LS7s still dropping exhaust valves? Also, I wonder if there is there a connection between the long stretch of high iron in the oil and it becoming normal just before an exhaust valve dropped. Maybe extremely worn out valve guides? Anyway, after my warranty is over I need to decide if I should be replacing valve train components as many others have done to solve this problem.
U.M.
10-24-2013, 09:09 AM
#44
In other words, are new LS7s still dropping exhaust valves?
Also, I wonder if there is there a connection between the long stretch of high iron in the oil and it becoming normal just before an exhaust valve dropped.
Maybe extremely worn out valve guides?
Anyway, after my warranty is over I need to decide if I should be replacing valve train components as many others have done to solve this problem.
10-24-2013, 09:31 AM
#45
[...] I have been changing the oil about every 3500 miles. This car is my daily driver and also sees about three weekends worth of track day events per oil change. That works out to a total of 24 sessions, each 25-30 minutes long. Or, about 11 hours of hard use on the track per oil change. [...]
At what point we don't really know, but on Z06_505's engine we definitely saw something very serious going on with his valve spring seats when he dropped a valve @ 24K track miles and, depending on who you talk to, supposedly good valve guides. I would guess a check every 20-30 track hours would be prudent, at least until a baseline of at least two checks were made. Would be a good time to do the wiggle test too . . . . .
10-24-2013, 10:04 AM
#46
Team Owner
Hi Howie,
I just posted the video of the engine failing: Corvette ZO6 Dropped Exhaust Valve, Sept 15, 2013 - YouTube
The reason it took an attorney was the local GM factory rep initially denied the warranty because “we did an Internet search on your name and found that you raced it.” I assume he found my YouTube videos. I did initially tell them it happened on a freeway on ramp, since a friend suggested it would be better if they did not know it happened on the track. In hindsight I don’t know if that was the best plan. But, I came clean with the true story and went on to argue that I don’t race my car, I participate in HPDE / track day events. GM kept coming back with race track = racing, so no warranty. My lawyer took over and made a case based on things including the advertising for the car, references in the owner’s manual regarding “track preparation,” numerous salesmen telling customers it’s OK to take their Corvettes to HPDE type events, and documenting YouTube videos of “C7 Corvette Stingray Specialist Training” track activity at Spring Mountain doing the same thing on the track that I do in my videos. Plus many examples of GM replacing engines known to have failed at track events. GM approved the warranty yesterday. Just one day before they knew I was going to tow my car to my own mechanic, pay him to replace the engine and sue them for the cost. I wasn’t going to wait 20 months as another CF member had to.
I think it will be some time before I get back on a track. I sure miss it. Maybe two weeks until I get my car back plus about one month for the break in miles.
I just posted the video of the engine failing: Corvette ZO6 Dropped Exhaust Valve, Sept 15, 2013 - YouTube
The reason it took an attorney was the local GM factory rep initially denied the warranty because “we did an Internet search on your name and found that you raced it.” I assume he found my YouTube videos. I did initially tell them it happened on a freeway on ramp, since a friend suggested it would be better if they did not know it happened on the track. In hindsight I don’t know if that was the best plan. But, I came clean with the true story and went on to argue that I don’t race my car, I participate in HPDE / track day events. GM kept coming back with race track = racing, so no warranty. My lawyer took over and made a case based on things including the advertising for the car, references in the owner’s manual regarding “track preparation,” numerous salesmen telling customers it’s OK to take their Corvettes to HPDE type events, and documenting YouTube videos of “C7 Corvette Stingray Specialist Training” track activity at Spring Mountain doing the same thing on the track that I do in my videos. Plus many examples of GM replacing engines known to have failed at track events. GM approved the warranty yesterday. Just one day before they knew I was going to tow my car to my own mechanic, pay him to replace the engine and sue them for the cost. I wasn’t going to wait 20 months as another CF member had to.
I think it will be some time before I get back on a track. I sure miss it. Maybe two weeks until I get my car back plus about one month for the break in miles.
What dealership is your car at?
FYI: I change my oil after every 2-4 track days. Usually 3 ........
Hope to see you out there soon
DH
Last edited by Dirty Howie; 10-24-2013 at 10:07 AM.
10-24-2013, 07:57 PM
#47
Final chapter on this topic was the total destruction of the engine from dropping the #5 exhaust valve.
On September 15th, two weeks and 500 miles after that great oil report, while under WOT acceleration down a straight section of track (at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana), at around 4500 RPM, it just quit. No unusual sounds. It was as though I had reached for the ignition and turned it off. I didn’t hear anything abnormal in my GoPro recording either. I did however have a huge cloud of smoke behind me. GM will fix it under warranty, but it did take five weeks and I had to hire a lawyer to make this happen - a long a story for another thread someday. Here is a link to pictures of the engine http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/Ra...ary/Dead%20LS7 I would have expected all this damage to have made a lot of noise, but I didn’t hear it.
So, the big question is will the new create LS7 have the same potential problem? Or, does the often quoted comment from GM “The quality issue has been contained as of Feb 2011 with 100% inspection of all heads” mean the problem is a thing of the past? In other words, are new LS7s still dropping exhaust valves? Also, I wonder if there is there a connection between the long stretch of high iron in the oil and it becoming normal just before an exhaust valve dropped. Maybe extremely worn out valve guides?
On September 15th, two weeks and 500 miles after that great oil report, while under WOT acceleration down a straight section of track (at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana), at around 4500 RPM, it just quit. No unusual sounds. It was as though I had reached for the ignition and turned it off. I didn’t hear anything abnormal in my GoPro recording either. I did however have a huge cloud of smoke behind me. GM will fix it under warranty, but it did take five weeks and I had to hire a lawyer to make this happen - a long a story for another thread someday. Here is a link to pictures of the engine http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/Ra...ary/Dead%20LS7 I would have expected all this damage to have made a lot of noise, but I didn’t hear it.
So, the big question is will the new create LS7 have the same potential problem? Or, does the often quoted comment from GM “The quality issue has been contained as of Feb 2011 with 100% inspection of all heads” mean the problem is a thing of the past? In other words, are new LS7s still dropping exhaust valves? Also, I wonder if there is there a connection between the long stretch of high iron in the oil and it becoming normal just before an exhaust valve dropped. Maybe extremely worn out valve guides?
Another dropped stock hollow stemmed exhaust valve.
I track and document the LS7 engine failures on this forum.
I swear, you guys are working me harder than the Chicago coroner.
5 blown LS7 motors in here THIS MONTH.
BEZ06
kattiger
jbednarsh
slacker1201
rstandke
4 either confirmed or suspected of having dropped a valve.
5 blown motors in here in reported during the month of October, and there is still a week left to go in the month....
And remarkably, there are still some of us out there who don't believe that this is an issue.
Out of all your pics rstandke, these first three, stood out to me the most.
Looking into the lumen of that hollow stemmed exhaust valve after the head has snapped off of it.
This last motor, you managed to lawyer up, and as a result, this first motor, is on GM.
You can bet, that the next motor will be on you.
So you might want to be proactive and take steps to keep the above from happening to you again.
You come in there with a second popped LS7, even with a warranty, and they are going to fight you tooth and nail.
Remember markuswelby.
His first LS7 popped, and he lawyered up to get GM to cover it. Similar situation as yours.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...post1578112997
Then he went back to the track with his new motor, and it popped too.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...post1578746513
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...post1578786305
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 10-24-2013 at 08:07 PM.
10-24-2013, 10:37 PM
#48
Team Owner
So you might want to be proactive and take steps to keep the above from happening to you again.
You come in there with a second popped LS7, even with a warranty, and they are going to fight you tooth and nail.
Remember markuswelby.
His first LS7 popped, and he lawyered up to get GM to cover it. Similar situation as yours.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...post1578112997
Then he went back to the track with his new motor, and it popped too.
FYI: I was there when Markuswelby's second motor blew .... and it too was at ACS
DH
10-27-2013, 08:53 PM
#49
Cruising
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Thanks for all the good information. I think after a 500 mile break in (following http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...-break-in.html), but not too long after that, I will be having changes made to the valves, guides and springs. Anything else? What I am asking for is a “shopping list” of the work I should have done to not worry about future valve problems. Also, does anyone know of a place in San Diego they would recommend to have that work done at? Thanks!
10-27-2013, 09:07 PM
#50
Team Owner
Thanks for all the good information. I think after a 500 mile break in (following http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...-break-in.html), but not too long after that, I will be having changes made to the valves, guides and springs. Anything else? What I am asking for is a “shopping list” of the work I should have done to not worry about future valve problems. Also, does anyone know of a place in San Diego they would recommend to have that work done at? Thanks!
DH
10-30-2013, 11:06 AM
#51
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Hi Howie, you mentioned you went to SS valves, bronze guides and CHE rockers (a change I plan to make myself) after your 11/24/12 oil report. Do you have a Blackstone report after the change? Also, based on your great numbers with M1 0W-40 I picked up a bunch of it at Walmart. One more thing, when did you have your current LS7 installed, and how many miles were on it when you did the head work? Thanks!