vetterdstr

Heres my take on it,

"I" have an 800 HP custom built LS6 Blower motor in my car which is tuned to run on 91 octane, Torco and methanol. I drive it on good days and once in a while hammer on it like I stole it. Some days I run 91 & Torco and other days I run 100 octane straight up. I cant tell the difference between the two. Without Torco or 100 octane fuel I would be screwed.

"YOU" have a stock motor that runs on 91 octane. The motor pulls timing and power and you will never miss it unless you drive it hard against other cars like yours that are tuned to use products like torco or 100 octane.

I am a car guy, I have in my garage and storage containers... engine cleaners, 100 octane fuel, 91 octane gasoline, methanol, diesel fuel, engine oil, gear oil, hydraulic oil and torco in containers ranging from 10 oz to 150 gallon tanks. I run the risk of having these products because I USE THEM.

You are not a car guy, you wont consider storing a container of anything other than water to add to your radiator in your garage just so you wont void your warranty.

The last part was a little over done.. but I think you get the point. Everybody has the choice to spend lots of money on a car and performance. Just like you all have the choice to run the car stock, drive it and enjoy it.

Just for everybodys information Higher HP engines do not last as long as stock motors. Joel runs his car very hard and is lucky to get 20K out of his engine IMO.

Peace out!

vetterdstr

One other thing I wanted to add to this thread. For those of you who think jb's testing of the torco product is bogus.....

American HP had torco sent out to I believe it was the Kenny Bell people "JIM Bell" to be exact for testing. The test was sent back with HIGHER OCTANE NUMBERS than what jb is showing on his tests. jbsblownc5 had no knowledge of this testing until it was post up on this forum.

Feel free to search this or talk to American HP to confirm.

jbsblownc5

This is the kind of response I know the average person who knows anything about high HP motors will easily deduct. A high HP motor WILL create a bigger bang, and ultimately wear out sooner. I'm no expert, but how often do Nascar motors with the same HP as this car get freshened up. I not sure how often high HP Dragsters redo their motors, but it's VERY frequent.

While most people just lurk and read these threads for entertaiment/knowledge the few that do post, often fall under the delusion, that they speak for the masses...

This is sometimes true, but when one holds a bias opinion, it is rarely true!

I had a very interesting conversation with a technical rep at Torco Today. For starters TORCO DOES NOT CONTAIN MMT, I stand corrected.

I will have a bit more on this conversation, and hopefully have some quotes as well in the future.

I had over 20,000 Brutal miles on my supercharged C5 over the last 3 years. The car is a weekend runner, and most of those miles were done on a race track or running the hell out of it in the mountains. I find it ironic that one would think Torco is the cause of this motor needing freshing up, when it FACT it is one of the very reasons it lasted so long. I've documented many of those runs on video, and posted them up on the net. The car is up and running now, and has been for some time. I will continue to run Torco, beat the **** out of it, and have my fun. When it needs to be freshened up, that's what I'll do.

Time to Feed the WIFE...

Carry on...

'06 Quicksilver Z06

Thats all well and good.

However as for the original poster, He is getting a stock '08 Z06, and what is in question here is whether or not He should run octane boosters in it when it will run on 91 octane just fine.

Peace out.



If it doesn't have MMT in it, then what was that reddish deposit on your spark plugs, and the spark plugs of others who have used it ???? Manganese is reddish in color.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1552514027

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1562239305

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1551686542

And others have mentioned this reddish color deposit on their spark plugs.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1559862410

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1551170977

People have been discussing this stuff and it's MMT content for nearly 3 years now.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...0&postcount=99

Now all of a sudden, you are being told that it doesn't have MMT in it???

Whats turning these people's plugs red then?

When someone argued that it had MMT in it, nearly 3 years ago, you argued right back that MMT was not such a bad thing.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...&postcount=126

Now all of a sudden, there is no MMT in it.

I am finding that the truth is, by your own admission, you say that you don't even know whats in it.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1551195224

I have to say, that this is not very reassuring if you are selling this stuff to people to put into their cars and you don't even know whats in it.

In any event, here is an MSDS for the Torco Mach Series Unleaded
http://torcoracefuels.com/msds/MACH_100.pdf

TORCO RACE FUEL CODE 6599006487
MACH 100 UNLEADED
SECTION 1
IDENTIFICATION: M.S.D.S. DATE 01/03/2005
UN/NA NUMBER; UN1268 MACH SERIES / PROFESSIONAL USE ONLY / FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY
MANUFACTURER: General Sales and Service, Inc. (GSS)
Torco Racing Fuels
110 M-51 North
Decatur, Michigan 49045
SYNONYMS............. PREMIUM UN 1203 (MACH 100 -HIGH PERFORMANCE)
CAS REGISTRY NO : N/A
CAS NAME : NO CLASSIFICATION -MIXTURE
CHEMICAL FAMILY : A BLENDED MOTOR FUEL
TRANSPORTATION : PACKING GROUP II
INFORMATION:
SUPPLIER :EVAN KNOLL EMERGENCY CONTACT: HEMTREC
PHONE :1-800-678-6726 EMERGENCY PHONE: 1-800-424-9300
SECTION 2
INGREDIENTS:
THIS PRODUCT IS A BLEND OF LIGHT PETROLEUM DISTILLATE, CAS # 8006-61-9,
WHICH CONTAINS BENZENE, CAS *71-43-2 AT 0.1 TO 4.9%. MAY ALSO
CONTAIN A PROPRIETARY MULTIFUNCTIONAL ADDITIVE AND/OR MMT,TEL,OR PHOSPHORUS, AND/OR
METHYL TERTIARY BUTYL ETHER (MTBE) CAS *1634-04-4, DEPENDING ON ORIGIN.
(INGREDIENTS WITH * IN CAS NUMBER ARE SUBJECT TO REPORTING REQUIRE-
MENTS OF SECTION 313 EMERGENCY PLANNING & COMMUNITY RIGHT-TO-KNOW
AND 40CFR372)
SECTION 3
PHYSICAL DATA:
BOILING POINT...............<80.0-430 (DEG. F) RANGE
MELTING POINT..............N/A (DEG. F) N/A (DEG.C)
SPECIFIC GRAVITY.........0.740<0.750 (H20=1)
PACKING DENSITY.........N/A (KG/M3)
VAPOR PRESSURE...........7/9 (MM HG AT 20C)
VAPOR DENSITY..............3.0/4.0 (AIR=1)
SOLUBILITY IN WATER.. NIL BELOW 0.1% (% BY VOLUME)
PH INFORMATION..........N.D. AT CONC. G/L H20
% VOLATILES BY VOL... 100
EVAPORATION RATE..... RAPID AND VARIES (ETHYL ETHER=1)
OCTANOL/WATER COEFF.. NO DATA
APPEARANCE.................RED
ODOR...............................HYDRO CARBON ODOR (CLEAR LIQUID)
ODOR THRESHOLD........15(EST) (PPM)
SECTION 4
FIRE AND EXPLOSION DATA:
FLASH POINT...........-45 EST'DP (DEG. F)
AUTOIGNITION TEMP......495 ESTIMATED (DEG. F)
---NFPA CLASSIFICATION-----------------HAZARD RATING------
HEALTH -1 0-LEAST 3-HIGH
FIRE -3 1-SLIGHT 4-EXTREME
REACTIVITY 0 2-MODERATE
SPECIFIC HAZARD----FLAMMABLE LIMITS IN AIR
LOWER EXPLOSIVE LIMIT (LEL) 1.3 EST.% VOL.
UPPER EXPLOSIVE (UEL) 6.7 EST % VOL.
FIRE AND EXPLOSIVE HAZARDS
EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE LIQUID (FLASH POINT LESS THAN -45 F)
EXTINGUISHING MEDIA--WATER FOG, MECHANICAL FOAM, DRY CHEMICAL POWDER CARBON DIOXIDE
SPECIAL FIRE FIGHTING INSTRUCTIONS--
COOL TANK/CONTAINER. WEAR SELF-CONTAINED BREATHING APPARATUS WHEN FIREFIGHTING IN
CONFINED SPACE.
SECTION 5
HEATLH HAZARD INFORMATION:
EXPOSURE LIMITS RECOMMENDATION
OTHER LIMIT: LIMIT IS DEPENDENT UPON BENZENE.
ROUTES OF EXPOSURE AND EFFECTS:
INHALATION:
EXCESSIVE EXPOSURES MAY CAUSE IRRITATION TO EYES, NOSE, THROAT, DIZZINESS, LOSS OF BALANCE AND COORDINATION: UNCONSCIOUSNESS, COMA, RESPIRATORY FAILURE, AND DEATH. CONTAINS MATERIAL WHICH HAS CAUSED CANCER IN ANIMAL STUDIES, THE SIGNIFICANCE TO HUMAN HEALTH IS UNDER STUDY.
SKIN
Skin absorption of material may add significantly to exposure. Mild irritation removes natural oils and fats from the prolonged or repeated contact.
EYES
Contact with the eye may cause temporary smarting. No permanent damage is expected.
INGESTION
Harmful or fatal if swallowed. Pulmonary aspiration hazard if swallowed and/or vomiting occurs. Can enter lungs and cause damage. Contains material which has caused cancer in laboratory animals.
FIRST AID
INHALATION
Move the afflicted person to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration and obtain medical assistance.
SKIN
Wash with soap and water until no oder remains. Immediately wash water for at least 15 minutes. If redness or swelling develops, obtain medical assistance. Remove soaked clothing immediately. Wash clothes before reuse.
EYE
Flush water. If irritation persists, obtain medical assistance.
INGESTION
Do not induce vomiting!!! Do not give liquids!!! Immediately obtain medical assistance!!! Small amounts which accidentally enter the mouth should be rinsed out until the taste of it is gone.
SECTION 6
Reactivity Data :
Stability Stable
Incompatible Materials Strong Oxidizers
Hazardous Decomposition Products combustion will produce carbon
monoxide and asphyxiants.
Polymerization will not occur.
SECTION 7
Special Protection Information:
Ventilation Use only with adequate ventilation. Ventilate as needed
to comply with exposure limit. Mechanical ventilation r
recommended.
Personal Protective System:
EYE
Safety Glasses produces minimal irritation to eyes. Local Safety Policy decision.
GLOVES
Impervious gloves recommended to protect against contact with product.
RESPIRATOR
Concentration-in-air determines the protection needed. Use only NIOSH Certified Respiratory Protection.
OTHER
If contact with product is unavoidable, wear impervious protective gear. Launder soiled clothes immediately.
SECTION 8
Disposal Procedures:
Aquatic Toxicity: Gasoline spills are toxic to fish and aquatic flora. Spill, leak, or release. Prevent ignition: stoop leak; ventilate area. Contain spill, use water spray to disperse vapors. Keep upwind of leak. Wear respirator protection for large spill, leak, or release. Advise EPA; State Agency if required. Absorb on inert material.
Waste Disposal Method:
Follow Federal, State, and Local Regulations, RCRA Hazardous waste. Do not flush to drain or use storm sewer. Contract to Authorized Disposal Service.
SECTION 9
Special Precautions:
Storage and Handling Conditions:
Keep away from heat, sparks, and flames, NFPA Class 1A storage. Consult NFPA and OSHA Codes. Transfer operations must be electrically grounded and bonded to dissipate static build up. Avoid prolonged breathing of mists or vapors. Avoid prolonged or repeated contact with skin, never siphon by mouth.

Now heres the MSDS for the Torco unleaded accelerator.

http://torcoracefuels.com/msds/Unleaded_Accelerator.pdf

"INGREDIENTS: CONTAINS A PROPRIETARY MULTIFUNCTONAL ADDITIVE PACKAGE. (INGREDIENTS WITH * IN CAS NUMBER ARE SUBJECT TO REPORTING REQUIRE- MENTS OF SECTIN 313 EMERGENCY PLANNING & COMMUNITY RIGHT-TO-KNOW AND 40CFR372"

"Proprietary????" But it still colors your plugs and at least one person's exhaust pipes, just as red as MMT does?????

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1551675528

I recall that manganese is a reddish orange color. You can look this up anywhere.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...se#post2496190

I don't doubt for one minute that it has MMT in it. Any octane booster capable of increasing octane 2-3 numbers, not points, numbers, probably has manganese in it if it, especially if it is turning your plugs and exhaust tips red.

vetterdstr

I agree... He doesnt need booster unless he is going to run it hard on a hot day. Like I said in my post he has the choice to leave it stock drive it and enjoy it any way he likes.

I bet if he tried torco his pinging would go away. If it did it would be up to him to decide if adding it to his fuel is worth it to him or not.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

with the red bold portion of your statement 100% sir and would not even dream of arguing that point with you.

However, I am sure that we would both agree, that if he is going to make such a decision, then the more information that he has, both pro and con, the better to aid him in making that decision of which you speak, and deciding whether or not its "worth it to him."

jbsblownc5

You may dought it all you like my friend but I was told today that MMT is no longer used in Torco Race fuel Concentrate as of about a year ago. It also does not say it contains it in the info YOU pulled up.

As much as you would like to believe there is some kind of conspiricy going on here, there is not.

I understand that your passion does not seem to be driving, but arguing on the internet.
So knock yourself out, but I prefer to drive my cars and spend time with my family...

I'm out for now.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

I enjoy those things as well. But I also think it good for people to know what they may be putting into their vehicles that they worked hard to purchase for themselves and their families.

JB, I have to say, I know what you say they told you, but methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl, or MMT, obviously has manganese in it. Manganese is red.

And if people are seeing a red deposit/residue on their plugs, or in their pipes, in a car using an octane booster in it's fuel, then that indicates that manganese is very likely in it.

Especially if its raising octane that effectively.

You say the Torco folk told you that MMT is no longer in it???? If its no longer in it........THEN WHY DID THEY ALL OF A SUDDEN DECIDE TO TAKE IT OUT???? What was the "problem" with it????

And do people who were using it when it still had MMT in it, about a year ago, you say, need to be concerned??? There must have been a reason for them to take it out.....

And if they took it out, then what did they replace it with so that the product could maintain it's previous effectiveness????

I don't believe that they have taken out anything.

In this post you tell us it has a "small amount" of MMT in it. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...0&postcount=27

"Short answer, Yes there is a small amount of MMT in Torco. Please don't ask me how much or what else there is in it, because I don't know". I do know that I've run it in every tank for over 5 years in my 98, and never had the Lamp turn on.

Does it leave a residue on your plugs?? yes. Do I find that to shorten their life? No."


Now, after the stuff hits the fan, you tell us that it has no MMT in it.

Thats part of my point.

Even back in 2005 the MSDS didn't list MMT on it.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1551675528

Yet we know that it had it in it......according to you at least until "about a year ago" it had MMT in it.

And indeed, up until a few days ago even you said that that it had MMT in it.

Now how is it that they took the MMT out of it, a year ago AND DIDN"T TELL THEIR DISTRIBUTORS ABOUT IT? And you are a distributor????

When were they planning on telling you that the product they were having you sell had been reformulated without MMT???

So I guess that if you had not called, you would be still going around and telling folks that it had MMT in it????

Again though, what is that red deposit JB? What is this red residue people are reporting on their plugs if its not manganese?

I think thats a question which deserves an answer.

Sean@OCCorvette

To answer an earlier post, Joel's car being worked on at our shop had nothing to do with him running Torco.

Torco works as advertized and is the only octane booster we use!

jbsblownc5

And here is my answer, You are not a customer of mine nor of Torco. You are certainly not a Moderator on this board, nor anyone that I have an obligation to answer to. You are a self appointed authority on anything you can spend your time on scouring the interenet and gathering information on.

In fact, with the internet infatuation you've developed for me, I should feel complemented, but am somehow reminded of the crazy broad I dated 3 times many years ago before I was married. I had to hit her with a restraining order....


As mentioned previously, I will deliver more info when I do, but it won't be on your timeline.

Good day!!

jbsblownc5

Thanks for chiming in Sean!

Tony B4

( Infatuation ) I do believe someone made a video with someone else`s avatar in the opening clip.......
I would also have taking that as a form of flattery (Infatuation ).

WARNING ! Don`t throw stones at a glass house!

This thread has been helpfull.

My .02 is, sometimes magic doesn`t come in a little bottle. Again, its just my .02(opinion)

Thanks.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

Interesting.

Well....

0Jeff @ TPE

Hey Joel,

I just came across this thread..
I find it hilarious..You of ALL people in this entire section, have taken your car past 190mph more time than probably every member in this section combined. Not to mention probably over 1000 laps at the track in excess of 150mph, and 1000's of miles worth of canyon carving.

ANYONE who knows you, knows that the AUTHORITY on on high speed, high boost, ULTRA aggressive driving is you..

As some know, I had Torco sent out to the labs for Chevron without ANYONE knowing. The end results were EXACTLY as stated by your own lab results.

Torco works...PERIOD.

I could care a less how many bachelor degrees were gotten in the 1970's and 1980's. If you havent PERSONALLY tested it, then your opinion is mearly that.. An unfounded OPINION.

There is a reason that most ALL ofthe high end tuners on the CF exclusively run Torco, and it's not because its snake oil.

ken-rx

The car will run fine on 91, not necessary to add it.

Tommy D

Ok but I don't think we are discussing the use of Torco for " high speed, high boost, ULTRA aggressive driving" If you look at the OP concern for using 91 octane gasoline.

In the context of a lightly modded or stock Corvette there is no necessity for a octane booster. The VCM has the ability to change octane tables and can run on regular gasoline.

If you want more performance you have the ability to tune the VCM by increasing the timing....... But small block LS engines only need a certain amount of timing, too much timing decreases power. More for the sake of adding more is not always better

Without discussing the pros and cons of Torco..... I would rather discuss the cost. If you consider that you will always have to use it to run X plus timing without detonation @ approximately $20.00 a can do the math.

You can just as easily save the money you would have spent on the tune & Torco and add a few bolt ons that do not require a tune

PS...... yea I know I'm cheap