5abivt

long story short. End of last summer, the shoppe reset the lash on the rockers. I go thome and after driving it at night I heard ticking that was a little loud. Here's what I found.







Fast forward to this year. Ever since The loose rocker I've been chasing a a/f mix reading in the wideband in that bank. The metal I found in there? Possibly a retainer ready to split/break? I don't know.

I just pulled the plug from that cylinder #1. here's what it looks like.



I'm really pissed off. I don't want to point fingers but I'm really pissed off at their sloppyness and refusal to try and find out where the metal came from or what damage could possibly have been done.

Slalom4me

What's the scene look like under the valve cover now?

Also, if you can resize the images to 640 x 480 or so,
they will load and display here better for most members.

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Slalom4me

Through bitter experience, I have learned that I have to listen
to my own instincts and either authorize the current vendor to investigate
on my dime, or if the instincts tell me this person is unlikely to do a
thorough & competent job, gather up my bits and go elsewhere.

Ultimately it is me who will pay the monetary &/or emotional price for
whatever develops. Life has taught me that others seldom have my
best interests foremost on their daily agenda.

.

Vette Threat

On the surface it appears that they goofed big time however, any competent engine builder should be able to tell you exactley what happened upon inspection. Are they aware of your problem? Did they offer to look at it? Do they stand behind their work or just say: "Oh Well you're racing it not our fault" and when was the motor done?

hip

The way it looks is a push rod is missing now probably in oil pan. The spring & valve maybe not hurt. I would try a new push rod, then run compression test. If compression test is good I would drive car & find out if anything is hurt maybe you got lucky. It's an endles scenero as to what happened or what should have happened. Good luck Hip

Slalom4me

How can you tell from the condition of the spark plug?

Note that Pryderei is presenting images from different timeframes. The
plug is a current image, the valvetrain photos are from the past. In
the earlier images, the lock nut has come off but the push rod is still
in place.

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mseven

did you see the spark plug pic? and you would still drive it?
No doubt in my mind I would do a tear down. I think if it mashed a plug that bad good there is a chance it punched a hole in the slug.
As to whose fault , I can only imagine what it may lead to, however hopefully they will back it up for you. good luck

5abivt

I do have another post describing what happened a week or so ago. the motor siezed or hydrolocked. Search my name its probably on the 2nd page or so by now.

The car has been in my garage since until i can source a 2 bolt block for a rebuild. It is definitely coming apart in the near future. I am planning on starting to remove accessories here in the garage etc so I will get the valve cover off pretty soon.

The loose rocker was banging away at the valve tip for a day or so including some high rpm runs. My best guess is the extra clearance was making it hard on the retainer. The retainer split and dropped a valve and the piston hit it possibly breaking into the cylinder wall allowing the coolant in hence the white smoke out the left exhaust.

I initially thought it was a head gasket because of the coolant. But now that I knew i had a rocker problem before.. i pulled just the 1 plug and I'm fairly certain the loose rocker banged up something and caused this. I'll be pulling the valve cover to see if the retainer let go tonight or tommorow.

I emailed the shoppe to see what their response is I'll be speaking to them. As I've said before our relationship is a good and long one so I'm curious as to how this will proceed. As bad as it is the engine was a gem to me and ran perfectly. it's sad that weeks after the rebuild I asked to have the lash set and an incompetent employee who rushed the job and always grumbled and complained forgot to tighten the one nut. Since then he was fired from that shoppe. Now we'll see if the shoppe will assume any responsibility for his poor work.

I'll keep everyone posted. Wish me luck on the damage !!

** BTW** Does AFR make the new eliminator head in an LT4 casting? interesting....

5abivt

One thing I forgot to mention is I took a magnet to the small tiny bits of metal in the exhaust pipes. it doesn't stick to it. So I would guess it might be piston material or the head ? The valves which are stainless and the block which is iron would stick to the magnet would it not? I;ll get a pic up of the pieces i pulled out of my exhaust tips right now...

5abivt

here's pics of the metal bits.

Slalom4me

Iron from the block will be attracted to a magnet.

Stainless is available in at least two series, 300 and 400. The following
is a generalization about their magnetic properties - I believe there are
exceptions but it is the rule of thumb I go by. The 300 series has a
high nickel content and is non-ferritic. The 400 series has a high
chromium content and is ferritic.

My guess is that many valves are made from the 300 series and are
non-magnetic.

Also, valves are the bullies. I don't think they often appear in such
small pieces.

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5abivt

thanks for the unput Can I hope that these are not pieces of my cylinder heads ?

Red Tornado

i really hate to say this. it right along the lines of what slalom said. i too have learned over time that is indeed a rare moment when anyone along the chain will take responsibility. they all have no problem taking your money, but when it comes to a "mistake", they will all point the finger right back at you. they will make every excuse in the book to avoid you. and then they'll tell you its a "performance build, and all bets are off". which is BS and a lie. they hate to pay for their mistakes, particularly when it involves big $$$. and proving its their mistake can be difficult. if you've got a good lawyer and you know exactly what you're talking about, you might have a chance. their mechanic and their best lawyer (i'm sure they retain one for times like this) will be up against you. they will have their ducks in a row to counter-claim anything you might try.

i really wish you the best, good luck.

Slalom4me

As I recall, you are already at 0.060 over in the block.

Judging from the plug, the cylinder isn't likely to have come through
unscathed. Are you considering liners?

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5abivt

The block will be replaced with a 2 bolt block and bored again .060 or slightly more. I'm pretty sure the block is scarred but I'm just hoping the cylinder head/chambers aren't extremely damaged.

edcmat-l1

In the world of performance engines and cars, s**t happens.
Not to defend this shop in particular, but how can you place liability for an engine failure on the last person to touch it? I can understand if the drain plug was left loose and it fell out and you lost all your oil.
The plug looks like you dropped a valve, no doubt. If you pull the valve cover and it happens to be that the rocker beat it to death, then yeah, maybe they are to blame.
But let me offer this bit of info; valves are made of 2 pieces. The head is fusion welded, or something like that, to the stem. I have seen more than one high perf valve drop a head right off and take out a whole motor.
It seems that alot of people want to place blame on 'the last shop' to service, modify, etc their car. When in reality, parts fail, people beat on their cars, some even go home and tinker after a pro shop has done work, only to inadvertantly sabatoge the work performed.
The piece of metal doesnt look like a retainer piece. Its been a year since the shop adjusted the rockers.
Its got beehive springs. You know those things break, right?
Comp has aknowledged this. When they break, there is no inner spring, or damper to be your saving grace. I wont put them in anything I build.
So, whos to blame? I guess you will at least narrow it down after you disassemble it.

BlackC6LS3

Slalom4me

Some background for those who may not have taken note
during the initial runs of the earlier threads.

For information purposes only. My vote is that the RPM thing
has already been discussed and bringing it up again in this thread
isn't likely to add much value.

388 LT4 Goes BOOM at 8000 RPM !!! Warning to all.... (2007.07.01)

eWhat could this be ?? Found in LT4 cyl head when setting lash !!

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Slalom4me

edcmat-l1, what are Pryderei's options for a block?

In a different thread, he asked for help determining the p/n# for a
new replacement. There doesn't seem to be a p/n, just casting
number info.

LT1 block part # ? Discontinued??

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edcmat-l1

Dont know if you can even get them brandy new. I've got a half doz or so in storage.
I also have one fully machined, ready to build with splayed caps. Freeze plugs, cam bearings, and clearanced for a stroker. 1000 plus shipping.