darguy

Hey Gang!

So, I've got this #'s matching mostly original '64 300HP/4-spd white on black coupe. The interior is in quite good condition, the body appears to be a no-hit with possibly the original paint, tinted original glass w/ power windows, chrome and hubcaps intact, etc. I got it this August for what I thought was a really decent price, then found out the frame was squishy when I put it up on jack-stands to pull out the tank to fix a leak after a 400 mile mountain cruise. I'd had it up before, but I guess the previous owner had done a pretty good job with the spray bomb before I got to see it...

My original plan was to fix what was needing attention and then take it to an NCRS event to have it evaluated for Bowtie eligability and go from there. In that vein, I've bought some bits and pieces to un-Bubba a few things (a few ignition shielding pieces, date coded wires, 'correct' fuel, oil, and air filters etc.) over the winter. However, now I'm wondering which approach to take. Restore or resto-mod?

The car is not packed with 'desireable options' (no power brakes or steering, no a/c, no leather, only 300 HP) and it's real strength is that it is a #'s matching mostly original car, albeit one with a lower HP rating - but it's never going to be a super high dollar car. And it's too bad about the frame, 'cause I wasn't really planning to pull the body. I've measured up my little 1-car 1950 garage, and if I do a few mods to the rafters I should be able to sling the body up high enough to give me about a foot and a half of clearance between the top of the engine and the bottom of the body - so I have just enough room to do the job. Not exactly a comfort fit.

I've been more of a hot-rodder than a collector over the years, and I can't yet afford to have the car sit for years doing a restoration while I drive around in a 13 year old Ford Probe with 300,000 km on it. If I could get a C5 Z06 or FRC for a daily driver while I played with the '64 that would be slick, but it aint gonna happen any time soon. What I really want is a Corvette I can drive daily in the rain in rush hour traffic in a city of 2.5 million people who can't drive very well. So, I'm contemplating doing the C4 chassis/brakes with ABS and a 5-speed resto-mod with the original #'s matching engine.

Best of both worlds, or complete bastardization?

I feel I have three options:

1. leave the frame alone and hang onto the car for a while and then sell it to someone who wants to deal with it, hopefully not taking too much of a hit

2. pull the body and repair the frame, restore the chassis and put it back together, leaving the rest as it is and drive it fair weather evenings and weekends

3. pull the body and resto-mod as described above, drive the car daily and hope no-one hits it

The 17 year old in me wants to do #3, the 40 year old me thinks #2 is the mose sensible course of action, but the I wanna play now 10 year old in me thinks #1 would get him into a daily driver Corvette ASAP.

Any opinions?



and Happy Festivus!

Nowhere Man

if it was me I would go the NCRS route.

sting ry

I also have a numbers matching 64 327/300 4 spd coupe except the frame is solid. Sometimes this "numbers matching" thing is like a curse. There are improvements that I would like to do, like add A/C but hesitate to do so because of the originality of the car. If I were you, I'd go with #3, if that's what you want. Personally, I think a stock appearing coupe with modern upgrades for improved handling and performance would be the hot ticket! You should be able to pull this off without altering the car, allowing it to be put back to stock if you or a future owner wants to do so. If the budget allows, you might consider removing the original motor and replacing with a stock appearing 383 or something similar. The possibilities are endless!!

Cheers and Merry Christmas

LSUvetteguy

Pull the body and fix or replace the frame. Not that hard and if you don't get side tracked (like most of us do) it won't take all that long to complete. Original cars will be a lot more likely to retain value in the long run. I noticed you're in BC. The wife and I should be passing through BC next year on the way to Alaska, but we will not be driving the 64. Good luck.

65coupe

#2.

It sounds like you bought it below market (based on a solid frame car). I would put a C2 frame under it and while that cost will take you over market on same car, in the long run you will be ahead. It sounds like a great car (matching #'s and PW) you can Bowtie and NCRS judge if that's what you want.

67L36Driver

We did a #2 on mine in 1991. Car was down about 3-4 weeks. Had to drive my '53 Ford PU to work. Did only what was necessary, brake lines, gas line, new body mounts etc..

darguy

Merry Christmas and thanks for all the feedback!

I think the 40-year old will likely win and I'll pull the body and repair the frame.

A few of you have said you've done this job (3-4 weeks, I'm impressed). I'm wondering, I'm a mechanic with loads of hand tools but working in a cramped home garage with only 110V without air tools. I've got a work-buddy who'se a machinist/fabricator who I could get to help me with the welding assuming I could get his equipment to run on the 110. Ballpark, how many man-hours am I looking at to pull the body, strip off the suspension, clean, cut, weld, paint, assemble, and drop the body back on? Assuming I don't get too sidetracked...

67-427ci

I did my body-off project last winter. It took me a little over 300 hours (with air tools, sand blast cabinet & heated garage). Have fun with your project.
Roy

Jalopy31

I would go with option #2. Other than the frame, it sounds like you have a car with lots of integrity. It seems a shame to resto-mod such a nice car when there are plenty of non-original cars that would provide a good foundation for that type of project.

BTW, I've been a street rodder for the past 25+ years, and never thought twice about cutting up an old car, but I'm beginning to mellow some now. I have really come to appreciate "survivor" type cars, and feel that they should be preserved as well as possible. They are certainly the minority when you look at the cars available out there.

Good luck - whatever you decide to do!

Todd

John McGraw

I am a big fan of the resto-mods, but I love original cars as well. I would never cut up a really correct, numbers matching car to build a resto-mod. I would restore the car to it's original glory and have it flight judged.

Plan on at least 250-300 hours for a really comprehensive chassis repair and restoration, but I can tell you that it will not end there! Once you get he body off, you will start doing one thing after another, because "it is just a little more work, and I already have it apart"!

Job creep in the restoration of old Corvettes is always a problem. Before you know it, you will have 1000 -1500 hours in a complete, every nut-and-bolt restoration! It is the nature of restoration and is pretty hard to avoid unless you have a great amount of willpower.

Regards, John McGraw

SPLITRAY

I was (not the car), in kinda the same boat. Everything was there, but not stock. It was too old and worn out to be reliable, though frame and body were solid. The only original power train component was the trans. No option 340 HP car.

I wanted to drive it! So...Power brakes, power steering, 450 HP 383 Stroker motor, wiring, everything! I figured I'd never get the money out that I would have put in it to make it "correct", and it still would not have been original. Decide what you want to do with it before you start. If mine was ALL original, I would have went NCRS.

mredi1

You can check out my resto mod project if you have not see it - http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1590723 . The guy who did the work has a site with a list of parts and sources - http://mysite.verizon.net/coltmckinney/ . My 65 was a 300HP 4 speed but no other real options. It was repainted in 1974 just before I bought it, I drove it for 2 years and then stored it for 30 years before I decide to resto mod it rather then restore it. I figured I would like it better and it would have a higher resale value if I ever decided to sell it. So far I'm very happy with - old on the outside, new on the inside !

Good luck on your project what ever way you decide to go.

vettebuyer6369

Don't restomod it. There's plenty of nonoriginal donors for stuff like that.

I say do Option 2A... pull the frame and fix it. Then, pull the numbers matching motor and store it. Drop in a crate motor that you can drive nonstop until you break it. You wont have to care. Best of both worlds.

That what I did on my '63 roadster, sold it for top dollar while including the unmolested original motor.

al329

Gman58

If it were me I would replace or repair the frame. Then enjoy the car. If your goal is a resto mod then mabey you can work a trade or buy a different car. Lots of options. Mabey a frame pull will tell you that it needs to be a resto conversion.

aworks

Thats how the 64 I bought this past summer started. A friend of mine bought the car from the orig. owner. The car was all there and untouched. He even had the dealer invoice from when he bought the car new. My buddy has a few vettes but wanted this car for a weekend driver. He then found that the frame was alittle weak. Then it snowballed from there.
He bought a brand new frame for the car and pulled the body. Now we all know you can't just put a new frame under the car. He had the orig. eng. done then rebuild the trans, the rear end, new trailing arms. You get the picture right? By the time he was done with the frame swap, everything was new. But he was also upsidedown in the car.
Now that weekend driver with the nice new frame didn't look as good. So now he strips the car. The car had a very nice body but thats when he ran out of money. Work got slow and he needed some cash. I bought the car and painted it, did the int. And am now finishing it up . In the long run he would have been much better off just selling the car before he took it apart. Now he lost his shirt on the car. The car looks great now but it has a boat load of money in it. Mostly his. Moral of the story. It's always way more than you think it will be. [IMG][/IMG]

darguy

Roy: I just re-devoured your post. You're a motivated guy, I figured ~15.5 hrs a week average for the job you did based on the info in your thread. I don't think I could devote that kind of time to the job, especially since I may be looking at picking up 10 hrs a week of consulting work over the regular day job to finance the car/project. I don't have the heated garage, or as much space as you had. But I'll look into a compressor and blast cabinet if it comes to it. I think that will be crucial. Also, I think I'll leave out any wiring or engine work at first pass - however, I will have the rusted out frame chunks to deal with...


Todd: I agree that it would be a shame to cut up the all original car (at this point in my life), I've had a few 'collectable' cars after the hot-rods (last one was a 1970 Frankenbird back in '92) but got rid of them before having to do the kind of work I'm looking at with the '64.


John: I also fear the job-creep. I also fear becoming obsessed with 'correctness' and getting stalled on a task because I don't have the proper bolt or paint at hand...

I recently resto-modded my 1950 Bungalow, and me and the Special Lady Friend kept to a very tight schedule of daily work to get what we needed done in 1-month, which we accomplished. What needs to get done later will get done later...

If I can keep it to a specific set of tasks with an allowance for some unforseen issues, I may be ok.


mredi1: Actually, reading about the job Colt did on your '65 is what got me started on the resto-mod idea. Your car is slick, for sure. And I agree with the resale value, I may be better off with a resto-mod '64 than original for resale, it's hard to say. Around here, it takes a long time to sell a Corvette at a decent price, so I'd likely have to export it from Canada if I wanted to sell it.


Gman58: I've put some feelers out for trades, and may decide to put it on the market if I decide to go resto-mod so that another #'s matching car does not get lost. Or, I may get into a C5 Z06...


aworks: Sage advice. I don't think I'd go as far as your friend did (and you completed), but it is Pandora's Box and hard to predict exactly where it will go. If I'm about to light some big $$ on fire I might be better off opting for #1, leaving the body on and taking my hit (or not depending on the market), and get myself something I can drive with a clear concience.


And on that happy note, I've done some math........

Parts on the resto-mod would come to $20k+ without touching the paint or adding a/c. I looked into a couple of local cars as parts donors and part-out cost-offsetters (95 auto and 96 6-spd coupes), and I wouldn't really be ahead by buying either of these cars (for rock-bottom by local standards - 12K and 15k), and I'd have a lot more work to do parting them out and selling parts. So, a resto-mod would come as a roller straight from Street Shop and may be the least amount of work to get the car whipped into shape.

Parts estimate (from Roy's post and the Corvette Central catalogue) to do the frame repair, body lift and mount kits, new rad support, front and rear suspension bushings, springs, shocks, tranny seal kit, fuel and brake lines, bumper bolt kits, steer box rebuild, 'correct' hoses and clamps, and a bunch of paint and such would come to ~$4.9K. Add in a 10% stray factor, Canadian taxes and shipping and we're looking at $6.5k. And, I'd say at least 300 hrs of work will take me 30 weeks to complete.

I'd not likely get to the job until mid February for real at this point - which would make it Sept 13th, 08. Which just so happens to be the weekend of the nearest/earliest NCRS event to me in Bend, OR (a 740 mile round trip). So, in theory, I could make it - but it'd be super tight...

Or, I could put it back together and drive it gently over the summer and wait until next year...

VetteHunter

My new CPI Collectable Vehicle Value Guide shows your car is worth $54,000 if "Excellent", $ 30,000 if "good". "Excellent" contemplates matching #'s.

No way would I make a resto-rod out of ANY matching number midyear Corvette. And I think the value would really go down on a resto-rod.

There are some cheap cars without engines out there!

BTW I had a 64 fuelie that had a restamped block that I sold to buy that new Z06 in the picture. But I did a lot of fixing up on the car and had it painted to get the lion's share of the Z06 money (Still have a 67). If the car would have had the original block, I would have had change after selling it and buying the new Z!

nitromainia

Anybody seen a Resto-mod.... ( Lets say SRIII frame, 5 spd, and your choice of big block) done right, Go for less than 75k? I've seen several asking around 120's! ....A good resto mod beats an NCRS Top flt. 300 horse bare bones any day!

John McGraw

That is true, but take it from someone who has built a few of them, they ain't cheap to build! You can end up with in excess of 100K in one of these cars in short order!

Regards, John McGraw