BaBa Booey

I read on Bugman's web site that clay baring can scratch your paint. He was right. I did the zaino treatment today and guess what? Scratches.
I used Dawn then the Z18 clay bar. The scratches aren't deep but they are defiantly there. I used a halogen lamp to see them better plus my car is black so they're probably more noticeable.
So now what?!? I don't know the first thing about orbital polishing and I'm not going to practice on my $50K car.
I'm going ahead with Z5 Z6 Z5 Z6 Z2. I'm on my second coat of Z5 and the scratches are still there.
So after I spent ~$100 on zaino now I need to pay someone else to repair the scratches?

Before you ask...Yes, I kept the clay lubed w/ water & Z7.
No, I didn't drop the bar, they were both new out of the package. (I used both in my kit to see if one was defective)
Yes, I used light pressure

I followed the directions but maybe I did something wrong.
I can't say I'm overjoyed with the clay baring process right now.



BTW the title is supposed to be Bugman was right ABOUT clay bar

JVM225

A good detailer should have no problem cleaning up the marks left behind by the clay.
It took me a few times to get it right too. I found that the trick is to do a very small area at a time, use plenty of lube, knead the clay frequently to keep it clean, and apply almost no pressure.

Comfortably Numb

It is "possible" the scratches were there already. The clay bar removed whatever it was that was masking them. Anyways that no longer matters. I would buy a PC 7424 or similar type product. You really can not hurt the finish. I bought one, worked on my company car for some practice, and was using it on my Vet one hour later. From the products you listed above, you did not mention anything that will remove scratches. (Z5 will fill scratches) I would recommend Menzerna Intensive Polish + Zaino ZPC Fusion. Then your applications of Z5 + Z2. If you really do not want to go the route of the orbital then you need to use multiple coats of Z5 until you are happy with the results (that will fill in light swirls, etc...) then finish with Z2. I do not like the idea of masking scratches and swirls. I've had good success polishing them out. Welcome to the world of detailing.

IAIA

BaBaBooHI,
I think Bugman spoke mostly about clay bar marring, not really scratching. I always took that to mean almost more of a scuff mark. I've used the clay bar for a few years, now....1-2 times a year..and have never noticed any scratching. The car is full of swirl marks, for sure, but not from the clay. I'm about to use a machine on them, stepping up to the next phase of my hobbyist's life.

I'm wondering if you can use a swirl remover by hand on those localized areas in which you find marks. If there are few enough of them, and if you really work them with a moderately aggressive polish, maybe you can avoid having to use a machine. Just a suggestion. I'll probably be shot down over it...but it's something I woudl try first if there were really just a few marks.

mark8855

I claybarred my brand new black car using the Zaino claybar and Z7/water as lube. I did not get any micromarring whatsoever. The trick is to go slowly, use light pressure, and LOTS of lube. I'd douse the work area with a Z7/water soaked rag, and then use a spray bottle to continuously mist the area as I hit it with clay. I probably went through at least 2-3 GALLONS of lubricant while doing the car.

This is not true, and I wish people would stop spreading this false information. I hit my car with a 7424, a white LC pad (brand new), and Zaino PC-Fusion. The PC-Fusion dusted up on me IMMEDIATELY, and left tons of fine swirls/marring in it's wake. I'm glad that I only tried a small section of the hood before I ruined the entire car. For a brand new vette, I'd trust it to a professional. Practice on your wife's beater or someone else's car if you want to, but there is no way you should buy a 7424 and then directly go to town on your $50k vette.

Comfortably Numb

What is false about this? Because you hit your car, then this is spreading false info? I would bet that there are more PC success stories than problems. Used correctly, I stand by getting a PC and the results it will produce. I've used orange followed by white pads with ZPC with great results. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

steve8

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...ghlight=review
PC 7424 review/long

I agree with bugman. Be prepared to polish with a PC after claying. I'm not saying that it's a definite, but be prepared. I will clay again in the future, but I will do it when I have the time to follow with a full treatment with the PC.
The above post is what I did this past winter, and is what I will be prepared to do again after claying if necessary.

BaBa Booey

Nice write up. Thanks. I may be looking into a rotary.
Showing my inexperience here...what does PC stand for?

Cole

I suspect that any marks you found were not from the claying. Clay can "scuff" or m"micro Mar" the finish, but using plenty of water, lube, detail spay so that it is slippery on the suface should minimize any potential damage. There are polishes that you can uses manually to remove minor scratches. The use of a random orbital polisher is pretty simple as well, but you can do damage with one if you dive in without some thought and guidance.

Try Mequires ScratchX which can be used to remove/mask the minor marks you mentioned. Apply by hand and see what you get.

Then move up to the 3M line and stick with hand polishing until you gain comfort with the process. Then buy the power equipment.

Comfortably Numb

Porter Cable one of many places to check it out are here http://www.autogeek.net/dual-action-...FR42hwodnwaNjg

I would give it a try - there are lots of great write ups and how to's on this in the forum - good luck

mark8855

Obviously you get results if it is used correctly. The incorrect information is you saying that it's impossible to screw up your paint with a 7424. It's very much possible, and it's easier to do than you think. This was my process:

1. Wash car
2. Clay car
3. Inspect paint, saw light swirls that I wanted to get rid of
4. Open brand new LC white pad
5. apply to backing plate
6. attach to 7424
7. spray pad with z6
8. apply pc-fusion to pad
9. apply pc-fusion to paint at speed of 3-4
10. pc-fusion dusted after 20-25 seconds, I buffed the residue, saw lots of new swirls.

I didn't do anything stupid or out of line. It is NOT impossible to screw up your paint. I'm glad you had a good experience, but just because you didn't have a problem, that doesn't mean that the machine is 100% safe.

IAIA

Dude...between the 7424 and your Zaino issues, there is only once clear action for you to take: You need to move!

mark8855

Yeah, I feel like a total idiot. I've used the PC before on my other car with no issues. I was thankful that I solved my Z-CS issue, and it wasn't really my fault at all. I don't know what the deal is with the PC-Fusion.

I just want people to know that you CAN damage the paint with a 7424. It's not as safe/foolproof as everyone here would lead you to believe.

agentf1

It is all in the technique. You can damage your paint washing, drying, claying and polishing but done "properly" none of these processes will cause any damage to your paint. I have clayed many cars and have never left a swirl. I prefer a QD as a lube and use Zaino clay.

The ROB is also an excellent tool as long as you do not try to do too much with it and know its limitations.

TOGWT

Anytime you use an abrasive product on a paint surface you are probably going to see surface marring from it


I think the claim made for the safety of a P-C orbital is that its almost fool proof. Although I would say since its inception in the
'90's very few people have a problem with it (but that's not to no one has)

Secondly using a ROB on a hard clear coat may be the causing the problem with surface marring as there is not enough power/heat to breakdown the abrasives in the polish.

If you use a ROB on a vette paint surface I would suggest you use a five inch CCS foam pad; with this diameter you are able to produce some friction heat and better breakdown the polishes abrasives.

Comfortably Numb

You might find this thread interesting - someone with a PC and their results http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1748290. I will change my "impossible" to "nearly impossible" Corvette Clear Coat is tough stuff -

Beach

Booey, I'm not going to take sides or step on any toes. I had water spots on my C6 (dealers fault) and my DD (black 06 Avalon) again not my fault. I tried everything recomended here in order of mild to ROB. When nothing worked I purchased a PC. Used it on the Avalon with pinnacle XMT followed by Zaino. Got the water spots out and the finish was fine. When I did the C6 I had the same results, even removed a scratch across the trunk. The only thing I will say I did was watch a video on how to use a ROB. When I thought I was familiar with the video I watched it 3 more times. Both my cars are black, with some effort and some time the PC worked fine for me. Causing no new problems and resolving some existing ones.

mark8855

The problems I had were on my brand new mustang....not a corvette

bugman

Ba ba booey:

yes - the clay bar will cause scuffs / swirls / cobwebs / marring... blah blah blah
--- just fancy words for scratches.

See the web page where you found the clay discussion:
http://www.bugmanweb.com -- click "claybar marring"

just after the marring pictures, you'll see how I corrected it - in this case just using an LC orange pad and Zaino PC fusion. The result was very good (pics on web site). There is nothing difficult about using the PC7424 - now is a great time for you to get one and try it.

Nice of you to post - claybar scratching is the big elephant in the room that everyone tries to pretend isn't there... few people are willing to share when something bad like this happens. Clay is basically sand in a fancy plastic gummy vehicle, and as TOGWT says, it is by definition an abrasive.

Grzldvt

WOW. I have not had much time to get in this section(busy testing a whole new line of MF towels, that are so far the best I have ever come across ), but I am still baffled by people getting swirls, from a Clay Bar. I have done dozens of dark cars and have not seen a Clay Bar creating anything new.
I am guessing it may be technique.
I purposely go in straight lines or specific angles depending on the car. This way I can instantly spot those fine scratches and determine what is going on. So far I have never really had to deal with it.
I knead my Clay Bars every two to three square feet, and constantly inspect the clay bar surface.
Let's face it you are picking up crud off the surface. The clay bar is a great tool but it is not fool proof. As you pick up crud off the surface, 90% of it, gets absorbed into the bar, but there is the other 10% that may not. No question that 10% will cause swirls.
The other issue I see from my customer base is improper claying technique. Those that have issues seem to want to jam the bar into the paint... not good, let the weight of the clay bar do the work.
There is the occasional spot that simply won't come off, and extra pressure is needed but overall. the pressure applied to the bar should be very light.
To twist a famous saying "Not that anyone here is doing that," a clay bar is a great detailing tool, but you need to constantly monitor it.
I know Bugman has had issues, and I really wish I was closer to him to see what is going on. I respect his opinions and would really like to see in person what is happening.