AFR's NEW ELIMINATOR COMPETITION FLOW HEADS
09-06-2006, 12:46 PM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
AFR's NEW ELIMINATOR COMPETITION FLOW HEADS
Has anyone installed the new Eliminator Heads AFR is offering?
I'm considering them and was wondering how well that stack up against GM's latest offerings, especially the 2005 GTO heads.
If anyone knows of a site that has the stock LS2 flow numbers I'd appreciate a link.
Thanks,
Jake
I'm considering them and was wondering how well that stack up against GM's latest offerings, especially the 2005 GTO heads.
If anyone knows of a site that has the stock LS2 flow numbers I'd appreciate a link.
Thanks,
Jake
09-06-2006, 02:57 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I guess no one has them yet. AFR says they're an all new casting design, addressed the oil drain-back problem, strengthened the stud bosses, achieved a 10% flow increase using a "clean sheet" all new design, and went with 8mm valve stuff to lighten the valvetrain.
I just received my new AFR catalog and the flow numbers are extremely impressive. Think I'll order a set and be "the first on my block . . ." LOL
Jake
I just received my new AFR catalog and the flow numbers are extremely impressive. Think I'll order a set and be "the first on my block . . ." LOL
Jake
Last edited by JAKE; 09-06-2006 at 03:00 PM.
09-06-2006, 03:03 PM
#3
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Jake, TPIS addressed the oil drainback issue as well, get their TPIS/AFR heads. One thing though, the price is thru the roof on them. I got mine 2 years ago for $1750 shipped. Price went up several hundred since then. Comparable to the AFR CNC'd competition ported version.
The one your talking about however appear to change the industry, once again.
The one your talking about however appear to change the industry, once again.
09-06-2006, 03:25 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '03 & '05
The new engine masters magazine has an article on them. They are very different heads and are equal too or out flow LS1 heads. They are called the same as last, but thinner stemmed valves, better ports, and the list goes on.
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article113/A-P1.htm
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article113/A-P1.htm
Last edited by steve40th; 09-06-2006 at 03:33 PM.
09-06-2006, 03:31 PM
#5
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Hot Rod 90
Jake, TPIS addressed the oil drainback issue as well, get their TPIS/AFR heads. One thing though, the price is thru the roof on them. I got mine 2 years ago for $1750 shipped. Price went up several hundred since then. Comparable to the AFR CNC'd competition ported version.
The one your talking about however appear to change the industry, once again.
The one your talking about however appear to change the industry, once again.
The Street Eliminators are going for $1,399 while the Competition Eliminators are $1,999. Comps aren't in production yet I'm told.
The Street versions are flowing 280 CFM .550 and 286 @ .600 while the Competition versions up the flow to 280 CFM at .500; 292 @ .550 and 300 @ .600
I'll check TPIS' site now to see what they have to offer. Thanks for that.
Jake
09-06-2006, 03:38 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
From what I found on TPIS' site, their AFR heads' chambers are too small for my purposes - 58 ccs. I can go 68 ccs or, preferably, 74ccs to keep my CR under control.
I saw them listed at $2,350!
Also, I need the straight plug version to prevent header clearance problems that a buddy of mine had when he installed angle plug AFRs with TPIS long tubes.
Jake
I saw them listed at $2,350!
Also, I need the straight plug version to prevent header clearance problems that a buddy of mine had when he installed angle plug AFRs with TPIS long tubes.
Jake
09-06-2006, 05:25 PM
#7
Safety Car
Originally Posted by JAKE
The Street Eliminators are going for $1,399 while the Competition Eliminators are $1,999. Comps aren't in production yet I'm told.
The Street versions are flowing 280 CFM .550 and 286 @ .600 while the Competition versions up the flow to 280 CFM at .500; 292 @ .550 and 300 @ .600
I'll check TPIS' site now to see what they have to offer. Thanks for that.
Jake
The Street versions are flowing 280 CFM .550 and 286 @ .600 while the Competition versions up the flow to 280 CFM at .500; 292 @ .550 and 300 @ .600
I'll check TPIS' site now to see what they have to offer. Thanks for that.
Jake
Any flow data on the Eliminator heads for the LTx motor????
09-06-2006, 06:04 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by TM-96CE
Any flow data on the Eliminator heads for the LTx motor????
09-06-2006, 07:13 PM
#9
Former Vendor
Perfect timing....LOL
Some more info and some independent dyno test results....
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1556803388
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1556803388
09-06-2006, 07:30 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
The LT1/LT4 versions of the new AFR Eliminator Street heads are:
STREET--------------- COMPETITION
.200 132/108 --------- 135/110
.300 198/156 --------- 201/157
.400 240/178 --------- 249/180
.500 260/190 --------- 275/195
.550 262/192 --------- 280/202
.600 262/194 --------- 280/208
.650 Not Listed ------- 282/212
They're emissions legal too.
I took these LTx numbers directly from the 2006 Master Catalog, but when I received the catalog there was a sheet that accompanied the catalog showing 280 @.550 for the L98 Street head and 286@.600 While the Competition version (not yet in production I'm told) flows 292@.550 and 300@.600.
No LTx sheet accompanied the catalog, sorry. So I don't know if the flow for the LTx engines is different or not.
Jake
STREET--------------- COMPETITION
.200 132/108 --------- 135/110
.300 198/156 --------- 201/157
.400 240/178 --------- 249/180
.500 260/190 --------- 275/195
.550 262/192 --------- 280/202
.600 262/194 --------- 280/208
.650 Not Listed ------- 282/212
They're emissions legal too.
I took these LTx numbers directly from the 2006 Master Catalog, but when I received the catalog there was a sheet that accompanied the catalog showing 280 @.550 for the L98 Street head and 286@.600 While the Competition version (not yet in production I'm told) flows 292@.550 and 300@.600.
No LTx sheet accompanied the catalog, sorry. So I don't know if the flow for the LTx engines is different or not.
Jake
Last edited by JAKE; 09-06-2006 at 07:42 PM.
09-06-2006, 08:26 PM
#11
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JAKE, you're right the TPIS CNC'd AFR castings are very expensive now. I can't believe what TPIS is charging. Now $1750 two years ago seems like a deal. They flow pretty close to the new Comp Eliminator heads, just a bit less.
I think TPIS better lower their prices, alot, now that the full AFR Eliminators are out! Congrats to AFR, looks like their new heads are turning heads once again.
I think TPIS better lower their prices, alot, now that the full AFR Eliminators are out! Congrats to AFR, looks like their new heads are turning heads once again.
09-06-2006, 08:50 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
As of now, the only problem I see is AVAILABILITY!
I've got the $$ and want my heads NOW, NOT 12-14 WEEKS INTO THE FUTURE.
AVAILABILTY has always been AFR'S Achilles' Heel.
JAKE
I've got the $$ and want my heads NOW, NOT 12-14 WEEKS INTO THE FUTURE.
AVAILABILTY has always been AFR'S Achilles' Heel.
JAKE
09-06-2006, 08:55 PM
#13
Former Vendor
Originally Posted by JAKE
From what I found on TPIS' site, their AFR heads' chambers are too small for my purposes - 58 ccs. I can go 68 ccs or, preferably, 74ccs to keep my CR under control.
I saw them listed at $2,350!
Also, I need the straight plug version to prevent header clearance problems that a buddy of mine had when he installed angle plug AFRs with TPIS long tubes.
Jake
I saw them listed at $2,350!
Also, I need the straight plug version to prevent header clearance problems that a buddy of mine had when he installed angle plug AFRs with TPIS long tubes.
Jake
Note that the new Eliminator LT's will be offered in 65 and 75 cc versions. Milling is available at anything in between and as low as 55 cc with an angle mill.
Our street 195 Eliminators which now flow in the 280 range will cost about $1850 or so....the Comp version around $2500 or so but your getting a 300 CFM 195 cc port....unheard of airflow prior to the release of this product in a runner that small. Have your cake and eat it to with a small port that makes huge TQ and great drivability and can still flow the air required to make huge power (much like our 205 Gen III LS product which has been a huge success).
Tony M.
09-06-2006, 09:01 PM
#14
Former Vendor
Originally Posted by JAKE
As of now, the only problem I see is AVAILABILITY!
I've got the $$ and want my heads NOW, NOT 12-14 WEEKS INTO THE FUTURE.
AVAILABILTY has always been AFR'S Achilles' Heel.
JAKE
I've got the $$ and want my heads NOW, NOT 12-14 WEEKS INTO THE FUTURE.
AVAILABILTY has always been AFR'S Achilles' Heel.
JAKE
Our move to the new building next month will ultimately help out a bunch but the true benefit of the much larger state of the art facility will take 6-12 months before its fully realized.....but the achilles heel of AFR is being handled and we are well aware of the situation.
Prior to that plan ahead and unfortunatley there will be a lead time. Good things are worth waiting for and this new product is no exception.
I understand your frustation though....make no mistake about it.
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; 09-06-2006 at 09:04 PM.
09-06-2006, 09:17 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
Jake...
Note that the new Eliminator LT's will be offered in 65 and 75 cc versions. Milling is available at anything in between and as low as 55 cc with an angle mill.
Our street 195 Eliminators which now flow in the 280 range will cost about $1850 or so....the Comp version around $2500 or so but your getting a 300 CFM 195 cc port....unheard of airflow prior to the release of this product in a runner that small. Have your cake and eat it to with a small port that makes huge TQ and great drivability and can still flow the air required to make huge power (much like our 205 Gen III LS product which has been a huge success).
Tony M.
Note that the new Eliminator LT's will be offered in 65 and 75 cc versions. Milling is available at anything in between and as low as 55 cc with an angle mill.
Our street 195 Eliminators which now flow in the 280 range will cost about $1850 or so....the Comp version around $2500 or so but your getting a 300 CFM 195 cc port....unheard of airflow prior to the release of this product in a runner that small. Have your cake and eat it to with a small port that makes huge TQ and great drivability and can still flow the air required to make huge power (much like our 205 Gen III LS product which has been a huge success).
Tony M.
I put my order in at $1,399 for the 195 Street Eliminators (the Competition version was seling for $1,999 but are unavailable) and, if at the time mine ship, the price of the Street version increases to $1,850 I will, without hesistation, cancel the order and move to Victor Jrs.
I don't abide by BAIT AND SWITCH TACTICS!!!
That pricing change is OUTRAGEOUS!!
If this price change does, indeed, come to pass, AFR's professional, business reputation, in my opinion, will be in serious jeapordy.
Count on me as being one of AFR's most OUT-SPOKEN CRITICS and I will make every effort to make portential buyers aware of this devious pricing policy on this Forum as well and others.
Your bean-counters had better take heed.
Jake
09-06-2006, 09:27 PM
#16
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St. Jude Donor '05
JAKE, LT series-Not Gen 1...Thats the difference in price I would assume, two different heads/prices.
09-06-2006, 10:59 PM
#17
Former Vendor
Originally Posted by JAKE
Well, that's a grossly UNWELCOME AND UNACCEPTABLE CHANGE IN PRICE!!!! I'M ASTOUNDED TO READ THAT! Almost a $500 increase in price!
I put my order in at $1,399 for the 195 Street Eliminators (the Competition version was seling for $1,999 but are unavailable) and, if at the time mine ship, the price of the Street version increases to $1,850 I will, without hesistation, cancel the order and move to Victor Jrs.
I don't abide by BAIT AND SWITCH TACTICS!!!
That pricing change is OUTRAGEOUS!!
If this price change does, indeed, come to pass, AFR's professional, business reputation, in my opinion, will be in serious jeapordy.
Count on me as being one of AFR's most OUT-SPOKEN CRITICS and I will make every effort to make portential buyers aware of this devious pricing policy on this Forum as well and others.
Your bean-counters had better take heed.
Jake
I put my order in at $1,399 for the 195 Street Eliminators (the Competition version was seling for $1,999 but are unavailable) and, if at the time mine ship, the price of the Street version increases to $1,850 I will, without hesistation, cancel the order and move to Victor Jrs.
I don't abide by BAIT AND SWITCH TACTICS!!!
That pricing change is OUTRAGEOUS!!
If this price change does, indeed, come to pass, AFR's professional, business reputation, in my opinion, will be in serious jeapordy.
Count on me as being one of AFR's most OUT-SPOKEN CRITICS and I will make every effort to make portential buyers aware of this devious pricing policy on this Forum as well and others.
Your bean-counters had better take heed.
Jake
Whats up with the roid rage??
Our LT's are priced exactly the same as they have been. The $1400 price is on the Gen 1 L98 stuff which has always been lower than the LT heads due to a variety of manufacturing reasons. Note there will be a price increase on EVERY AFR product in the near future due to manufacturing cost of supplies and materials skyrocketing lately, but even so....were offering you the latest technology and advancement in cylinder head design thats head and shoulders (pun intended) above anything we have ever seen or produced....even at a 20% bump in price its worth every penny on a performance per dollar investment (no the price increase won't be 20%).
Relax and get your facts straight before you publically tear into a another board member....not to mention one thats a supporting vendor who has a good reputation and will be here to help and advise you guys on our product.
In the meantime take a few of these
Jeeeez.....tough crowd
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; 09-06-2006 at 11:03 PM.
09-06-2006, 11:03 PM
#18
Race Director
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
Jake....
Whats up with the roid rage??
Our LT's are priced exactly the same as they have been. The $1400 price is on the Gen 1 L98 stuff which has always been lower than the LT heads due to a variety of manufacturing reasons. Note there will be a price increase on EVERY AFR product in the near future due to manufacturing cost of supplies and materials skyrocketing lately, but even so....were offering you a head thats head and shoulders above anything we have ever seen or produced....even at a 20% bump in price its worth every penney on a performance per dollar investment.
Relax and get your facts straight before you publically tear into a another board member....not to mention one thats a supporting vendor who has a good reputation and will be here to help and advise you guys on our product.
In the meantime take a few of these
Jeeeez.....tough crowd
Whats up with the roid rage??
Our LT's are priced exactly the same as they have been. The $1400 price is on the Gen 1 L98 stuff which has always been lower than the LT heads due to a variety of manufacturing reasons. Note there will be a price increase on EVERY AFR product in the near future due to manufacturing cost of supplies and materials skyrocketing lately, but even so....were offering you a head thats head and shoulders above anything we have ever seen or produced....even at a 20% bump in price its worth every penney on a performance per dollar investment.
Relax and get your facts straight before you publically tear into a another board member....not to mention one thats a supporting vendor who has a good reputation and will be here to help and advise you guys on our product.
In the meantime take a few of these
Jeeeez.....tough crowd
09-06-2006, 11:08 PM
#19
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St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by Bill's86Coupe
Not exactly a customer service quality oriented response.
Tonys response appears to pretty restrained considering..My observation, thats all. Didnt seem to be harsh IMO.
He misread the pricing, was given the correct info, no big deal..
09-06-2006, 11:10 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by cuisinartvette
Should he be happy about Jakes flame?
Tonys response appears to pretty restrained considering..My observation, thats all. Didnt seem to be harsh IMO.
He misread the pricing, was given the correct info, alls good in forum land again. Damn.
Tonys response appears to pretty restrained considering..My observation, thats all. Didnt seem to be harsh IMO.
He misread the pricing, was given the correct info, alls good in forum land again. Damn.
