C6Z06 Torque Management (TM) Thresholds
10-19-2006, 12:32 PM
#61
Tech Contributor
Originally Posted by Ranger
Thanks for the screen shots, Joe_G. 
Suspect you'll have some fun with HP Tuners, especially if you can do live data collect while making acceleration runs, wherever that may be.
Trying to find the techniques that give max acceleration in any Corvette platform is a challenge. Some guys do that via mods; my path is modding only the driver.
Ranger
Suspect you'll have some fun with HP Tuners, especially if you can do live data collect while making acceleration runs, wherever that may be.
Trying to find the techniques that give max acceleration in any Corvette platform is a challenge. Some guys do that via mods; my path is modding only the driver.
Ranger
I don't see anything on these screens that will help "drive around" the TM, but if I discover something meaningful during my playing with the software I will let you know.
THE FOLLOWING COMMENT MADE AGAINST MY BETTER JUDGEMENT:
Do you think the existence of this information in HP Tuners "proves" TM exists for manuals?
10-19-2006, 12:47 PM
#62
Race Director
Thread Starter
Member Since: Aug 2000
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 0
Received 27 Likes
on
20 Posts
Originally Posted by Joe_G
...Do you think the existence of this information in HP Tuners "proves" TM exists for manuals?
Ranger
10-19-2006, 01:23 PM
#63
Safety Car
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: stafford country, va. Avatar: Me on turn 3 @ Bristol (The World's Fastest Half-Mile)
Posts: 3,565
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
2 Posts
Originally Posted by Ranger
We need to be careful, lest those folks will revisit this thread, littering it once again with....Ahh, don't want to start up again.
Ranger
Ranger
10-19-2006, 01:53 PM
#64
Instructor
Originally Posted by Joe_G
I finally bought HP Tuners, and here's a screen shot of the seemingly more important TM parameters you can change on a C6 M6. Unfortunately I don't know what the C6Z06 thresholds are, but perhaps this will be of interest to you anyway.
It looks like the whole thing can be disabled with two clicks to disable Spark and ETC, but I know that's not your goal, you want to drive around it.
It looks like the whole thing can be disabled with two clicks to disable Spark and ETC, but I know that's not your goal, you want to drive around it.
I'm not seeing those option in the file I have.
chess427@msn.com
Thanks,
10-19-2006, 02:47 PM
#65
Tech Contributor
Originally Posted by checkmate
10-20-2006, 12:13 AM
#66
Instructor
Originally Posted by Joe_G
It's the latest 2.1.14 version of the software that I downloaded from the HP Tuners website this morning. The older version, 2.1.12 that shipped with the scanner, did not work on my 05 at all. It said invalid VIN/OS so maybe this is something new?
Last edited by checkmate; 10-20-2006 at 12:36 AM.
10-20-2006, 12:18 AM
#67
Instructor
Originally Posted by Joe_G
It's the latest 2.1.14 version of the software that I downloaded from the HP Tuners website this morning. The older version, 2.1.12 that shipped with the scanner, did not work on my 05 at all. It said invalid VIN/OS so maybe this is something new?
SO this is your answer, hell yes the ls2/ls7 c6's have TM. Anything below 3000rpm it's reducing power.
And...
This means that at 86F the PCM is pulling at least 2 degrees of timing, the PCM will blend so average 77 and 86F so at approx 70 Degrees F at the intake air temp the PCM will start pulling timing.
IAT is usually 20-30 Degrees F higher than the an ambient temp(outside air).
This shows you have a very narrow window between 170-198 Degrees F that the PCM will not screw with timing due coolant temp.
I hope this helps.
Last edited by checkmate; 10-20-2006 at 12:35 AM.
10-20-2006, 08:14 AM
#68
Drifting
Yes, this certainly does help. Note that the max torque tables make no distinction whether the tranny is an M6 or an A6.
I also noticed the statement on the screen that says if traction control is turned on, the PCM will use ETC to control traction. Is there a table where the ETC values can be modified? What does ETC stand for?
I also noticed the statement on the screen that says if traction control is turned on, the PCM will use ETC to control traction. Is there a table where the ETC values can be modified? What does ETC stand for?
10-20-2006, 09:06 AM
#69
Tech Contributor
Checkmate - Is that a LS7/Z06 file? Mine is a LS2 file and you certainly do have more options on TM.
Great info on the IAT spark retard info too. That should help some folks - last night I saw someone linked to a $99 IAT adaptor to move it to cooler temps that would help folks who don't tune. I now can understand why my Vararam helped so much.
Great info on the IAT spark retard info too. That should help some folks - last night I saw someone linked to a $99 IAT adaptor to move it to cooler temps that would help folks who don't tune. I now can understand why my Vararam helped so much.
10-20-2006, 09:13 AM
#70
Tech Contributor
Originally Posted by HITMAN99
Yes, this certainly does help. Note that the max torque tables make no distinction whether the tranny is an M6 or an A6.
I also noticed the statement on the screen that says if traction control is turned on, the PCM will use ETC to control traction. Is there a table where the ETC values can be modified? What does ETC stand for?
I also noticed the statement on the screen that says if traction control is turned on, the PCM will use ETC to control traction. Is there a table where the ETC values can be modified? What does ETC stand for?
ETC seems to be Electronic Throttle Control. There's a ETC TPS Max table on mine that allows adjustment. The help says "This is the Maximum allowed ETC throttle percent based on the current percentage of torque being delivered. The PCM uses this to limit the ETC opening rate to maintain traction.
10-20-2006, 11:28 AM
#71
Instructor
Originally Posted by Joe_G
Checkmate - Is that a LS7/Z06 file? Mine is a LS2 file and you certainly do have more options on TM.
Great info on the IAT spark retard info too. That should help some folks - last night I saw someone linked to a $99 IAT adaptor to move it to cooler temps that would help folks who don't tune. I now can understand why my Vararam helped so much.
Great info on the IAT spark retard info too. That should help some folks - last night I saw someone linked to a $99 IAT adaptor to move it to cooler temps that would help folks who don't tune. I now can understand why my Vararam helped so much.
I verified the vin number in the file and it is a 2006 Z06.
I'd rather alter the PCM so I know what is going on, rather then use an adaptor to fool the computer.
Originally Posted by Joe_G
I have tabs for Automatic Trans but there are no tables or choices there. I think the software just gives you the tables & choices that exist in your file.
ETC seems to be Electronic Throttle Control. There's a ETC TPS Max table on mine that allows adjustment. The help says "This is the Maximum allowed ETC throttle percent based on the current percentage of torque being delivered. The PCM uses this to limit the ETC opening rate to maintain traction.
ETC seems to be Electronic Throttle Control. There's a ETC TPS Max table on mine that allows adjustment. The help says "This is the Maximum allowed ETC throttle percent based on the current percentage of torque being delivered. The PCM uses this to limit the ETC opening rate to maintain traction.
ect is electronic throttle control.
I can screen shot the whole torque management section if you guys want me to, I can also send this file to anyone that would like it.
10-22-2006, 10:45 PM
#73
Tech Contributor
Hey Checkmate (or other savvy tuners) - There's a ETC TPS Max table on mine that allows adjustment. The help says "This is the Maximum allowed ETC throttle percent based on the current percentage of torque being delivered. The PCM uses this to limit the ETC opening rate to maintain traction".
To reduce TM, should one increase the numbers closer to 100 or reduce them? The help text can be read two ways. I don't plan to touch this but I am curious.
Here's a screen shot:
To reduce TM, should one increase the numbers closer to 100 or reduce them? The help text can be read two ways. I don't plan to touch this but I am curious.
Here's a screen shot:
10-23-2006, 07:33 AM
#74
Instructor
Originally Posted by Joe_G
Hey Checkmate (or other savvy tuners) - There's a ETC TPS Max table on mine that allows adjustment. The help says "This is the Maximum allowed ETC throttle percent based on the current percentage of torque being delivered. The PCM uses this to limit the ETC opening rate to maintain traction".
To reduce TM, should one increase the numbers closer to 100 or reduce them? The help text can be read two ways. I don't plan to touch this but I am curious.
Here's a screen shot:
To reduce TM, should one increase the numbers closer to 100 or reduce them? The help text can be read two ways. I don't plan to touch this but I am curious.
Here's a screen shot:
I'd set the whole table to 100% to completely get rid of TM.
10-23-2006, 07:42 AM
#75
Tech Contributor
Originally Posted by checkmate
That is 2005 PCM's only, most GM vehicles for 2006 use the E38/E67 ECM's. Things are a lot different and I don't mean that in a good way.
I'd set the whole table to 100% to completely get rid of TM.
I'd set the whole table to 100% to completely get rid of TM.
I'm waiting for Mike Norris to port my tune from LS2 Edit to HP Tuners, I'll let him fix it for me. I just had to do a little self tuning to get rid of the 5800 rev limiter in 2nd gear only (seems to only affect those of us with 390/410 gears - I posted a separate thread on this). I had a track event Saturday and wanted to get a clean run. I got it, but with stock fueling which means I was very rich and down about 2-3 mph from where I think I should be.
On that note, is there any problem flashing a computer multiple times? I like having the fan come on really early on track days, but around town the noise of constant fan is annoying and really draws a lot of amps I noticed. Can't be good for fan and alternator life long term. So I was considering having a track tune and a street tune but don't want to flash the computer too often if that is a problem.
10-23-2006, 09:28 AM
#76
Instructor
Originally Posted by Joe_G
Thanks for the advice - I could read the help instructions both ways and was afraid 100% would basically disable my throttle! Or make it very slow.
I'm waiting for Mike Norris to port my tune from LS2 Edit to HP Tuners, I'll let him fix it for me. I just had to do a little self tuning to get rid of the 5800 rev limiter in 2nd gear only (seems to only affect those of us with 390/410 gears - I posted a separate thread on this). I had a track event Saturday and wanted to get a clean run. I got it, but with stock fueling which means I was very rich and down about 2-3 mph from where I think I should be.
On that note, is there any problem flashing a computer multiple times? I like having the fan come on really early on track days, but around town the noise of constant fan is annoying and really draws a lot of amps I noticed. Can't be good for fan and alternator life long term. So I was considering having a track tune and a street tune but don't want to flash the computer too often if that is a problem.
I'm waiting for Mike Norris to port my tune from LS2 Edit to HP Tuners, I'll let him fix it for me. I just had to do a little self tuning to get rid of the 5800 rev limiter in 2nd gear only (seems to only affect those of us with 390/410 gears - I posted a separate thread on this). I had a track event Saturday and wanted to get a clean run. I got it, but with stock fueling which means I was very rich and down about 2-3 mph from where I think I should be.
On that note, is there any problem flashing a computer multiple times? I like having the fan come on really early on track days, but around town the noise of constant fan is annoying and really draws a lot of amps I noticed. Can't be good for fan and alternator life long term. So I was considering having a track tune and a street tune but don't want to flash the computer too often if that is a problem.
Did you adjust your gear size in the computer?
I had an 01 camaro ss with a big cam, when I was adjusting the fuel/idle initially I reflashed the pcm 20-30 times in one day. Total of 100-200 times(maybe even more, this is just a guess) in 4-5 months and I had no issues. Track days I was reflashing after every run.
Just make sure your battery is reading 11-12 volts before you do a write and you will be fine.
10-23-2006, 10:08 AM
#77
Tech Contributor
Originally Posted by checkmate
100% will completely disable TM, one the HPTuners owners even suggested this.
Did you adjust your gear size in the computer?
I had an 01 camaro ss with a big cam, when I was adjusting the fuel/idle initially I reflashed the pcm 20-30 times in one day. Total of 100-200 times(maybe even more, this is just a guess) in 4-5 months and I had no issues. Track days I was reflashing after every run.
Just make sure your battery is reading 11-12 volts before you do a write and you will be fine.
Did you adjust your gear size in the computer?
I had an 01 camaro ss with a big cam, when I was adjusting the fuel/idle initially I reflashed the pcm 20-30 times in one day. Total of 100-200 times(maybe even more, this is just a guess) in 4-5 months and I had no issues. Track days I was reflashing after every run.
Just make sure your battery is reading 11-12 volts before you do a write and you will be fine.
I didn't adjust gear size for my 2nd gear only rev limiter - here's the fix that works, Nicodemus figured this out.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1525166
Do you think I should adjust for the gear? The speedometer & odometer work great. The fuel mileage on the DIC isn't accurate anymore. I see I could adjust the 1.0 "Final Drive Ratio", I guess to 1.14 since 3:90's are 14% higher than 3.42's (or is that .86? I get confused). I didn't think you had to adjust for gears with a manual but would like your advice.
While you're at it, any hints on how to get rid of the rich factory stock WOT tuning? Shoot, if I knew that, I'd be a tuner!
10-24-2006, 09:06 PM
#78
Instructor
Originally Posted by Joe_G
Thanks Checkmate! That's great advice.
I didn't adjust gear size for my 2nd gear only rev limiter - here's the fix that works, Nicodemus figured this out.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1525166
Do you think I should adjust for the gear? The speedometer & odometer work great. The fuel mileage on the DIC isn't accurate anymore. I see I could adjust the 1.0 "Final Drive Ratio", I guess to 1.14 since 3:90's are 14% higher than 3.42's (or is that .86? I get confused). I didn't think you had to adjust for gears with a manual but would like your advice.
While you're at it, any hints on how to get rid of the rich factory stock WOT tuning? Shoot, if I knew that, I'd be a tuner!
I didn't adjust gear size for my 2nd gear only rev limiter - here's the fix that works, Nicodemus figured this out.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1525166
Do you think I should adjust for the gear? The speedometer & odometer work great. The fuel mileage on the DIC isn't accurate anymore. I see I could adjust the 1.0 "Final Drive Ratio", I guess to 1.14 since 3:90's are 14% higher than 3.42's (or is that .86? I get confused). I didn't think you had to adjust for gears with a manual but would like your advice.
While you're at it, any hints on how to get rid of the rich factory stock WOT tuning? Shoot, if I knew that, I'd be a tuner!
Sorry.
