I don't see a way it won't pass 3,500lbs. LS3 to LS9 was 90lbs in the engine alone, then there is the heat xchanger, dry sump, more coooling, bigger brakes, tires, wheels, stronger bits.

Thresholds are imaginary however, just increase it!

Wow, 3300lbs... and that is for the non-Z51?

That is how I read it.

Was famed top secret GM engineer "Big Gunnzz" at the event? You know, he's the one that was all over LS1tech leaking "top secret" engine specs, and how it would be well north of 500hp with E85?

lol

The HUD looks amazing!

Thanks!

I like the analogy.:thumbs:

Very disappointing that they are using all the high end expensive light weight material and still coming in heavier.

Remember the original rumors of 10% lighter? That would have been awesome!

Hope this changes on the Z06/ZR1 models.

have we gotten any official mileage info yet?

RC,

One question on this. If you're in a mode other than Eco, say Sport, and you shut the car off. When you re-start the car, does it default to Eco, or does it stay in Sport (or the other modes if they were one you selected)?

Thanks for all the info.

We all owe you a cold one.:cheers:

One could also assume that the horsepower is 450(which is the number GM is estimating, at this point in time) and the Z51's weight is 3348(heavier brakes, wheels, dry sump etc.). That would make the power to weight ratio 7.44.

Who said 10% lighter? You bought into that? Or maybe you were the one making up and spreading the BS.:crazy2:

RC;

By chance is there an accessory display? I am curious as to what the Optional Stingray sill plate looks like... ie painted / polished / ???? Picture would be awesome if available.

THANKS!!!!!

I lost 8 lbs which is not 10%. However I did make up the extra weight of the iron exhaust manifolds. I am so proud...:thumbs:

Last fall, people were speculating the weight would be around 3000 pounds(including me). That's around 5.6% lighter, but nowhere near 10% which would be 2887 pounds.

So rumors aside BlueHair - are you considering the weight gain a win?

I'm curious how even you will market, uh I mean spin this as a positive.

Hint - for sports cars weight is bad.

This has been asked, but I need to be clear. There are several "modes"...some that stay on, some that dont.

Let me be 100% and get back to you tomorrow before I mispeak.

Yep...i'm fairly certain that put z51 under 3400.

Z06 will use some additional methods to shave weight, while adding...3500 won't happen.

Old Big Gunz didnt make it...lol

Yep...standard equip carbon roof and hood on every vette. Cant say they didnt do everything possible to keep weight down.

Gas mileage...no

There is a display with things added daily....i'll see what I can do.

Hint...you wouldn't know the difference.
Hint...you thinking it would be 10% lighter means you are an idiot.

Grounded to the Ground!:rofl::rofl:

Say What! The Z06 at 3500 lbs??

Wont exceed 3500 i meant...no way. I see z06 in the 3400's...maybe less if they pull somethin crazy off.

You have to consider that z51 is near a c6z in that it has sump system, cooling systems and aero parts. So, the mass of c6z06's already exists on c7z51 nearly. Only weight to be added on z06 would be bigger brakes, bigger wheels/tires and anything else under the hood. You could see a carbon hatch and body though, lighter seats, you name it.

Hint - you don't know anything about cars. Every post you come off more and more ignorant.

You insulting me personally is so childish. Are you in high school or a grown man?

I have never seen someone get so bent about a car that they don't even own.

The C6 was lighter than the C5 - guess weight reduction is also obsolete on the C7 despite using expen$sive Carbon Fiber and Aluminum throughout.

So I ask you again BlueHair - is the weight gain a win?

10%...:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rof l::rofl:

Maybe High School student was too ambitious - maybe you are still in Middle school.:crazy2:

I guess you thought it was 10% lighter too.

3400 in the Z car is still not good!

I thought with an Aluminum frame and extensive use of Carbon fiber and all the talk of weight savings from team Corvette, where they literally broke down how much weight each component was going to save for the past few months, the car would be lighter.

Pretty shocking that the C7 is heavier and some try to spin it as no big deal.

Guess great marketing trumps great results for some.

Cool, thanks. Always helpful to have another set of eyes on it.

:thumbs:

:iagree:

That must have been why they took so long to announce it and only touted specific areas of weight loss.

I figured with the lighter frame and materials that the Base C7 weight would closely match the Base C6 weight. But instead the Base C7 is about as heavy as a GS/ZR1 and that is before adding any of the Z51 performance goodies.

Even if the Z51 only adds 50lbs and ends up around 3350, that is still more than 200lbs heavier than a C6Z. With less power and tire... yikes.

You may be right but lets face facts. Which is nobody really cares about weight. They say they do but anybody says they are not buying a C7 because of an increase in weight were not going to buy it regardless. The most important thing is that overall performance continues to improve generation to generation and they keep it priced right.

I don't think you will ever hear anyone saying I know the new generation overall performance is better but I picked up the old one because it is lighter.

Even with its current weight it still performs...damn well for the entry corvette

It's just gaining weight at the same rate that the owners are. :leaving:

Uhhh.... What? Speak for yourself. I would say the majority of people buying a sports car care about weight. For a plethora of reasons.

Does GM just hire kids to sign up and post stuff like this?

Weight and HP go hand in hand. As in overall performance. As in handling dynamics. As in brake performance. As in more wear and tear on the tires when tracking or spirited driving.

How many other ways are people going to argue the weight gain as no big deal. Bet they are all new members.

Constant spin here whenever somebody is critical of any aspect of the C7 - but it is amazing that somehow something as un-objective as weight gain being negative is getting a side that is defending it.

Hey . . . HEY . . . . I resemble that remark !!! Buy my performance is better than ever :thumbs:

:rofl:

My weight hasn't changed in 10 years. Yet the same size jeans is getting tighter around the belt level than it was before. :toetap:

The c6 zr1 has over 3400lb curb weight...and it is one of the fastest production cars ever to put in a lap at nurburgring.

It'll be fine...

The only way for the C7 performance vehicles not to hit 3500lbs is to stay normally aspirated. What are the odds of that? TVS is over 100lbs addition with all supporting parts whether it's 1.9L or 2.3L. I bet that's the way things are heading, an LTA (LSA like powerplant).

So, the ZR1 would be slower if it weighed less, like 3200 pounds?

:iagree:

I'm willing to bet the next engine upgrade will be with a supercharger, along with it's weight increase.

And would cost a hell of a lot more.

Do you think they chose to make the ZR1 3400+ vs 3200? Do you think they make the cars weigh more out of choice or irresponsibility?

i suspect FI is coming, but its not going to add 100+ lbs over z51. They wont hit 3500...If they do though, it will still inevitably be the fastest vette ever

I don't think he is saying that but you can say that chevy did everything they could to shave weight from the ZR1 and I am happy to see a lot of the tech being included in the base C7. Plus now they are making a car with track as it top priority and street second called the Z28. My thought is anyone who is so in to tracking their car wouldn't even be serious about a C7 until the high performance models are announced.

OAN:Lets not go back and fourth and throw this thread way off track. We can discuss weight in one of the other 100 plus threads created just for that topic!

The Lotus Elise is one of my favorite cars of all time. Driving that car makes you feel like there is an event going on every time you drive. It is not in the top 10 on the Nurburgring nor does it have 200hp even. You see a gap between cars you want to be there. After redline there is a short shift and when the clutch engages it thrusts the chassis forward by literally snapping it forward.

Can a 4400lb car be fast? sure. Do I care about driving it? not one bit.

I've never seen someone complain so much about a car they will not ever buy :thumbs:

Pot-kettle.

I'm in the exact same boat; looking forward to PSS ZP sizes for Z06 in 19"/20" sizes :)

Let me word it a different way. Take a 3200 pound Z06 with a NA LS7 with 638 HP at the flywheel(560 HP at the rear wheels, which is very doable) with the same tires/brakes as the ZR1, and which would get around the track faster? The 3200 pound Z06 with 638 HP or the 3333 pound ZR1 with 638 HP, both having the same brake package and tire s?

But, if you add 80 pounds with the supercharger and cooler to a Z51(at 3350 pounds) and then add even larger brakes and wheels/tires to compensate for the additional weight and horsepower, the final weight could easily hit 3450 pounds. Compared to the 3333 pounds of the ZR1, the C7 would need more than 638 HP to keep up with the obsolete C6 ZR1.

Thanks RC.

Will be interesting to learn if one has it a mode other than Eco, whether when you shut down the car and re-start it defaults to Eco, or stays in the mode you were in.

Would be neat if it stays in the mode you previously selected.

You've been a busy guy. We very much appreciate it.:thumbs:

I agree that arguing an increase in weight doesn't matter is incorrect. However, it really only matters to those tracking the car. Someone telling me it matters for street driving is exaggerating IMO (for the sake of an argument) or will end up in jail for crazy street driving.

However, bottom line is the increase is not substantial and, IMO, very strong relative to the additional technology in the car. If they wouldn't have paid attention to the weight where they could, it would have been much heavier.

Lastly, suspension tuning, chassis stiffness and weight balance all play a very important role. If I'm betting, the C7 will "feel" lighter than the C6 on the track as the weight gain is relative small and the improvements in chassis and suspension will more than offset it. We'll have to to wait and see.

C6 ZR weighs about 3350.

The C7 also has a lower center of gravity and a rearward weight bias, these together with the improvements you mentioned will have a large, positive impact on handling dynamics. Tadge was quoted at the bash saying the 0-60 is comfortably under 4 seconds and Jim Mero called the Z51 a track monster. Bottom line, this car is going to be a winner.

638 FI HP helps overcome weight though.

:D Funny how 638HP does that very thing. :yesnod:

Thanks for the info RC000E, it's appreciated. Only mileage and power/TQ figures left.

My point being the Z06 or whatever it will be wont have that kind of power.

Don't know what kind of power it will have (I'm hoping a lot:D, but obviously we'll have to wait and see).

But it will be tough for it to come in under the C6 ZR1's 3350 curb weight if it has an FI mill.

Especially if the C7 Z51 weighs 3350 without a blower. The C7 ZR1 version will need around 660 HP to get the same power to weight ratio as the C6 ZR1

Power/weight ratio isnt the only factor which makes a car fast. Additionally, power/weight ratio focuses on a peak hp figure, which nullifies an engine with large tq gains, increased grip and better aero.

If you've ever raced and built cars in your life you'd know that you can build a motor with higher peak hp in the same chassis and be slower at the strip/road course. Power delivery is far more important than peak hp figures.

The criteria by which most of you view things just tells me you're keyboard racers and engineers, not practicing builders/drivers, otherwise you'd know better. I'm not saying that to be rude, I am saying it to impress upon you that you're not seeing the whole picture for what it is.

A car, as fast as the Corvette, built to standards from multiple nations, with a warranty, for the msrp, is a challenging process. You cant make leaps when you are already light, fast, cheap and reliable. Honestly, as a professional car builder, fast, cheap and reliable are a pure contradiction! Leaps dont exist anymore, only steps. How many steps is a balance of investment, recoverable investment, reliability, result, etc.

The best Corvette possible will always require the best series of compromises available at that point in time. The end result is how the car should judged. Is it faster than the previous car? Does it stop better? Does it get better mileage? Is the interior improved upon? Is the price increase typical and along comparable market standards? These are things that effect the end user.

Be more subjective and see the bigger picture.

:iagree:

RC,

I think folks - well most, anyway - have not lost sight of that.

Someone who gets it,......:thumbs:.........:cheers:

Never met him, don't know him, but this man is becoming my CF hero :thumbs:

Good data on how the driver modes affect the various systems. Excellent post. :thumbs:

I have a clearer pic via slr but cant upload it via ipad. Need to get home to do so.

I remember back in the sixties racing my Elan - 1600 cc's, 140 hp and 1200 -1250 pounds. One year they stuck us in B production with the small block Corvettes and Cobras instead of in C where we belonged. On a tight course I could keep up, barely, but throw in a couple of straights like at Road Atlanta, and I would be sucking exhaust all day.

I never said I will never buy a C7 - on the contrary I actually want to buy the High Performance model just as I did with the C5 Z06 and the C6 Z06.

But I want to Love all of it - not just 80% of it. I want the rear end to be up to par design wise to my opinion of quality and I don't want a significantly heavier car.

I love Corvettes and I think the majority of the stuff on the C7 works well. But if/when I get one if GM hasn't fixed the busy rear i will look to the aftermarket.

:cheers:

So I'm sure I understand, you won't want the C7Z if its heavier than your C6Z, but you bought a C6Z after owning a lighter C5Z? That's strange. I'm thinking you bought the C6Z because it was a faster car...a newer version. If the C7Z is a faster Z, you've changed your purchase criteria to specifically require lower weight?

The rear end isnt up to "par"? Par being defined as?

So the curb weight and rear bumper design counts as 20% of a car?

differential and half shafts weight gain?
 

One interesting I noted in the weight gain chart was the 8.3 kgs to strengthen the differential and half shafts. That is a fair chunk of metal. Since I don't remember the differential and half shafts being a weak spot in the c6 (except for the 1st year) I am asking the question "Why does it need to be strengthened unless they are expecting significantly more torque to be going through them". Why add extra weight and cost to something that already worked fine unless there is a good reason to do so? Does anyone know?

I spoke to an engineer...Mike....a Suspension/chassis guy for corvette on this issue

He said that a new supplier has been chosen and that the entire rear end was upgraded. z51 will have the unequal shafts as well as dampners like ZR1, as well as launch control like zr1. He said the z51 leaves the line hard because of the torque the LT1 makes. He said everything was upgraded...cv joints, shafts, torquetube...everything.....and people are bitchin about this new car not making power...lol...funny stuff.


Another detail I havent posted yet

To note...turning circle decreased despite longer wheelbase

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...psb57db08f.jpg

I get the big picture, but I am still disappointed with the weight gain. 43.4 pounds of the gain are directly related to better performance. Part of the engine weight gain is for better performance. I suppose part of the electronics weight gain is for performance (rear battery). Some of it is unavoidable due to safety regulations(I could do without any airbags). I hope the guys demanding a better interior are happy with that weight gain!

They did such a great job taking weight out. without that WOW it would have been heavy.

I hope they have a lot up their sleeve to keep the Z06 type car's weight down:
Lightweight manual seats standard
Carbon ceramic discs
Carbon fiber wheels
Non-run flats
All CF body
Magnesium alloy trans case
Titanium exhaust
Less sound deadening
No AFM valve train
Hollow titanium alloy anti-sway bars


I thought Tadge mentioned there was going to be a surprise....... any idea on what it is/was?

Is the GM portion of the Bash essentially over, or are their more talks where more info could come out?

Thank you very much for all of your hard work gathering and conveying information.


I was surprised there was little talk about why they needed to strengthen the differential and half shafts. 20 HP should not have required that much weight gain. I see it was mentioned above as I typed this. I am so slow:)

I've read some of your other posts, and I know you're on the right track.

The architecture of the Z06 will likely be the same situation faced by z51. There is mass you must add, and there is mass you can subtract...for a price.

Carbon wheels and brakes...too costly for Z06 and frankly not necessary. New brake design saves weight over typical designs. Alms car runs iron brakes...they can make it work. Carbon wheels...doubtful.

Return of Ti exhaust would be nice
All CF body I see as very possible
Less sound deadening and lighter seats...no question possible
AFM or no...I think that is debatable and 50/50
Non ZP tires...sure...but wider for sure (in excess of 300mm per a michelin engineer I interrogated in detroit...so changes offset
Thinner glass again like C5Z?
Employing lightweight, more costly materials to small components...sure


Gm portion is not over...I will be talking more tomorrow with people and the design seminar takes place. Wonder what taillight drama will ensue? Though, as is typical, people run their mouth by computer but not in person....we'll see.

Doin my best...glad my efforts are appreciated is all.

I wonder how far they're gonna take the Z06? I hope it becomes more track focused then before.

Funny thing about the thinner glass. I went to see my 2001 Z06 being built on the line. When I saw it, it had no rear glass :ack: It had broken as they were installing it. It was early production, hopefully they got better with experience. :D

They could do it like Porsche, charge you extra to take things out of the car!

Or it could be like my 2006 Elise and have a 1mm sheet of aluminum for the floor and cover it with a sheet of cloth they called carpet. Put in manual fixed back seats. People on here say they want lightweight, but they are not willing to sacrifice the luxury of a Corvette for the spartan construction of the Elise (no cupholders!, or glove box, or console, cloth targa top).

The issue is, and this is just my off the cuff perception....the issue is, there is a faction of corvette buyer who will simply buy the most expensive corvette in order to be the big shot at the cruise in or local corvette club. Its these guys who own the zr1 or z06 for the wrong reason, but will be a buyer lost if the car is too raw. Gm needs those guys to sell cars though....the big money guys...who are often old with no intention of exploring its extra potential...lol.

When it comes down to paying to strip your car, your still paying forvdevelopment and testing. They just cant tear out the carpet...they need to test sound increases, test for heat intrusion, test for wear or material to put in place, etc. if you lose the radio, they need to develop block off plates, etc.

Me personally...i say look to c5z...gimme an interior like that...cheap and adequate then just gimme a badass seat, a nice steering wheel, and raw performance. Thats the C7 my money will be spent on regardless...c7z or bust...

:iagree:

Lol, you should see the threads on the miata forum regarding the lighter cloth top vs the power retractable hard top.....77lbs more oh no!

You have it exactly right though, the Corvette buyer demands a balance of luxury, performance, space, reliability, etc. Even with the increase in weight, its still lighter then other cars in its class.

Does the exhaust upgrade provide additional power or just audio and aesthetics?

Answers to that still caught in the fog of secrecy...

I dissected a lot of things during the past two days, and there's a lot of blurred lines, but also secret info as well....:yesnod:

What percentage would you give to the rear end? Is it not about twenty percent of the total body design? Are we to really debate that number - pick whatever you want - it's very significant either way in terms of overall design. :yesnod:

C6 Z06 gained about 50 lbs over C5Z but added:

- Bigger engine 5.7 to 7.0
- 100HP
- Wider and taller wheels and tires
- Dry sump oiling system
- Bigger brakes two more calipers for front and rear
- more sound deadening.
- Wider body
- Full Glass hatch

All this was added without huge weight gains due to AL frame and a few CF body panels and structural segments and the C6s decrease in overall length by almost 12" compared to the C5.

So feature wise there was a huge improvement with the smallest of weight gains. Now that the base C7 already has an Aluminum frame and Carbon Fiber body panels BUT COMES IN HEAVIER so what is in store for the C7 Z06?

If they add bigger wheels, tires, brakes, larger oiling system possible engine weight from either displacement (fingers crossed) or a Supercharger where are they going to remove weight from? The Aluminum frame is already in place as well as Carbon Fiber parts. And if I am not mistaken the C6 and C7 are roughly the same length - there is definitely not a 12" difference for sure. Maybe they make more fenders in CF but that will shave maybe 30-80lbs max.

So in all probability due to starting with a heavier base C7 that already has an Aluminum frame and Carbon Fiber parts the C7 Z06 may not only be heavier than the C6 Z06 but may be heavier than the BASE MODEL C7.

If it comes in 3450lbs or more it is going to be contrary to it's original mission statement to be the lighter faster hard core Corvette.

I am sure they will have snazzy marketing that will tout all the new features of the C7 Z06 - but that doesn't mean we should eat it up. The possibility of a 3500lb +/- Z06 upsets me to the core.

:cheers:

Jeez...where to begin with you....your logic is beyond self serving.

#1 z06 will obviously be heavier than the base...as was c6z06/r1. Yet again, c5z was the only z car lighter than the base, yet you bought a c6Z.

#2. Oh yeah, but even though z06 gained weight it had all these things to "show" for it, so you were ok. So, its not about the bottom line performance numbers, its about big brakes, big tires, big cubes?

#3. Please list all the specs for the c7Z...hp, cubes, brake size, tire width, etc.


The bottom line answer I want from you...the answer that defines you...is the answer to this:

If the c7z straight up outperforms the c6z, regardless of comparative weight, tire size, brake rotor diameter, cubic inches...will you want to own it...will you buy it? Yes, or no?

FWIW, the C6Z was lighter than the C6 Base. Pretty sure it is the lightest C6 in the lineup at 3130~ or so pounds.

EDIT: Source - http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_11...s/viewall.html

:iagree: True. The original/2005 base C6 was listed as weighing 3179 pounds until a few model years later when it gained a few pounds and got bumped up a little bit to be advertised at over 3200 pounds.
The C6 Z06 gained a little as well as the years passed but the base C6 Z06 still continued on to weigh less than the base C6 LS3. :yesnod:

I suppose I was just too excited for a smaller, aluminum tubed, carbon fiber wrapped C7 that would weigh in under a C6 Z06. It is not that I don't see GM's effort as noteworthy, or that the car is not a great deal at $52k but rather that a 3400lb Z51 C7 is not to my liking. Who knows, it may be so well engineered that I would overlook the weight.

Let's be honest, if we were to pool everyone's opinion on whether a 3100lb C7 is realistic and likely 6 months ago a lot would have said that it is the former and the latter.

Despite all of the impressive advances of the C7, it is unfortunate that making the car more marketable to the masses has necessitated an increase in weight. That is a bit of a disappointment. You can make heavy cars fast - just look at the AMG models from MB. However, they do not have the driving dynamics of a car that is 1000+ lbs lighter and are thus not that fun to drive in comparison. Hopefully they offer an equivalent to the F430 scuderia where they can shave some of the weight off via deletion of options for the track enthusiast.

I find the presentation slides evidence of how GM is trying to downplay the increase in weight. They spend a lot of time showing how they reduced mass vs the C6 and very little time telling us why the C7 is heavier. To me the C7 is not the engineering triumph that the C5 and C6 were with respect to weight savings.

As for what Tatge and Jim Mero say - what do you expect? They are GM employees! Do you think Jim Mero would ever suggest the C7 was a track slug even if that were true?

Before anyone calls me a C7 hater - I plan on buying one (probably a vert), but this just reinforces my decision to keep my C6Z.

^The lack of roll hoops is probably the most worrisome.

See for example this track event's requirements for safety:
Required Safety Equipment:
All Cars:
1. Seat belt in good working order.
2. Snell 2000 (Snell 2005 for Time Trial & Race) or better helmet.
3. Gloves - leather or Nomex. No holes or synthetic materials.
4. Natural fiber clothing extending from neck to wrist & ankles.
5. Convertibles: Must have Roll bars extending 2” above top of helmet. “Factory” or “street” bars acceptable for Street Performance group only."

http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.c...9#.UXuPlbXUc7c

Is there a higher resolution copy of this, or at least a translation? I'd like to read it. I don't suppose they release the slide deck, do they? I love how they focus on the technical info. :cheers: to the GM vette team; you guys rock.

Great info! Cant wait to get mine!!!

:iagree: we need a link or something that is easier to read.

THANKS

Have you not noticed the feature enhancement in the C7? Take a look at the photo of the sign on weight. Holding weight effectively flat was impressive given the items that added weight if you ask me.

Boo! Trying to spec mine out.

So far:
Black z51
2lt
Mag suspension
Nav
Black wheels

Exhaust is all I need to know about this point. Just trying to build a performance model that will still have resale value.

In your opinion, did the suede inserts add much?

Exactly. The benefits of what was added was deemed more important than the extra weight. Benefits should prove to outweigh the costs once we see the performance stats...if a little weight had to be added, I am sure the engineers scrutinized every kilo before it was added to the car.

just curious, have you ever owned a black car? If you are even the smallest bit anal about your car looking duty, get ready for a cleaning commitment...:D Just a warning.

Clearer pic of modes

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...psba89ab99.jpg

Did you lightweight bitching guys not see this? Everywhere I see weight additions, I see a significant performance increase.

MAYBE the steel torque tube and 5 lbs of valvetrain for AFM reasons is a takeaway, but everything else makes it a better car than the C6 - even the C6 Z06.

Improved structural stiffness, handling, acceleration, horsepower, economy... if the power to weight ratio gets better, what the hell does it matter what the scale says?

You're arguing about something that does not matter. You want a car that sacrifices everything for weight? But an Elise. Enjoy that Singer sewing machine of a motor they put in there.

Corvette has never been a featherweight.

Some history & Comments
 

From All Corvettes are Red

When the C5 was being developed, Dave Hill decided to put a dollar value on mass. His systems engineer, Tadge Juechter, put together a committe and worked it out. "The bottom line is that mass equals money." Based on Tadge's work, Hill gave the design team the freedom to spend $10 per kilogram to rationalize mass reductions. That's not in today's money!!! The C5 went on a real weight watch from that point on.

This is not from the above source.

When the C6 was being developed Hill established a policy of "No Take Aways." Weight increase was considered a take away.

Tadge's original work showed that an increase in weight reduced performance, reduced economy and reduced sales by a measured dollar amount.

I don't know if the Corvette Team used a similar approach in designing the C7.

IMHO, the way Team Corvette has handled the information release on weight, power, economy, and performance has caused a great deal of the confusion and angst in the forum.

I THINK it comes down to one point: if the car: feels better, handles better, gets better MPG, does better 0-60........the only POINT anyone can make IS..." if GM made it even lighter, then it would obviously do better number..OK?....well they have already said we have better numbers with the current build.....Thus, weight issue is?

GM says they look at every gram of added weight and it has to be proven to be needed before it's added. Tell me, what performance gains are achieved by adding a larger 3 lb gas tank(2)?

I can drive my 505 HP C6 with it's 18 gallon gas tank 420 miles between refueling when on a road trip and get fuel before I'm running on fumes(3 gallons still in the tank).


Seems to me, with all the money spent to achieve greater gas mileage, and weight added to the car to achieve that goal, that a smaller, lighter gas tank would be in order.

I would think that 10% smaller gas tank would work if the C7's gas mileage is improved by 10%. Instead of a 3 pound gain, there would be a 6 pound loss in curb weight. 9 pound delta.

Agree absolutely. 3300lbs is not heavy for car with + 450hp/450tq. It appears they have made this car faster, stronger, smarter while staying very close the previous weight. I think this is an engineering win. Oh, and don't forget, this in a car that is available at just under $52,000. That's a pretty good value in my book.

As far as the future (Z06/ZR1) variants, keep in mind that there are plenty of things they can do here. For example the hatch and front clip could go CF. If they delete AFM in the (LT4)? motor, they could go w/ alum. torque tube, single mass fw. If they go fixed roof, they could also further reduce mass on the frame. All to trade off for the parts that will be beefed up. I'll bet the high performance(track) car will weight about the same if not a pound or two less. IMHO

Just examples, but putting these things on the base car would really just penalize ($$$) the many of us that don't really need/care/want it.

GM doesn't need to do anything to create sniveling in CF. :rofl:

Well a new GT3RS comes in at 2998 pounds with 500hp out of a 4.0 six cylinder. Granted it is a 150k which means they can use more expensive and lightweight materials but it does say a lot for their engineering techniques.

This thing will be stupid quick!

Thank you for exactly making my point.

Why is that gas tank larger? Just because the engineers thought you could use a little more fuel?

I'm betting not. I'm betting it had more to do with redesigning where the tank fit into the structure of the car, weight distribution and center of mass. The extra mass and extra capacity? Part of the trade off.

If all you look at is the extra weight, then it's a reason to complain about something. If you look at the overall package and what is delivered with that change to the gas tank, there is more to it than a little more fuel and a little more weight.

As I said above - get yourself an Elise - they have a thimble for a fuel tank. Colin Chapman's famous added lightness. They also have enough luggage space for two cups of coffee and all the amenities of a phone booth. Nothing against a lightweight car like the Lotus, but it ain't a Corvette.

@ sam, my 2011 was stupid quick and it was the 3.8 and 450hp.

For the prices of a Corvette, a CTS and a Silverado combined, it could be milled from a solid block of Unobtainium.