Hot Rod Magazine's Inside the new LT1
 

I got the new Hot Rod Magazine in the mail today. It has a great write up on the LT1( four pages) after reading it I have a better understanding of the engine. Also they talk about a few of the engineers laughing at the announced power rating. Following that article that have another section (4 pages) that explain direct injection. If you guys want me to load it up let me know. If not its a great read.***used a crappy hotel scanner and photobucket for the first time..enjoy lol
http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...njection/2.png
http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...njection/3.png
http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...njection/4.png
http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...njection/5.png
http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...njection/6.png
http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...njection/7.png
http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...njection/8.png

What is funny is that it was a GM press release that went to all the rags that announced the horsepower and torque specs. I guess the 'engineers' are laughing at themselves, as the 450 lbs-ft and 450 HP are on GM's web site. http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/p...olet/gen5.html

The consensus is that The General is sandbagging.

GM has stated from the beginning the LS1 makes AT LEAST 450. They have been baiting us with the claim that it makes more, but we don't know how much more. IMHO they are doing this because the number will be impressive AND because the real HP number is the biggest thing they have to reveal come January since we already know what the car looks like.

I never read any GM press release where GM said the LT1 makes AT LEAST 450. They said the ESTIMATED horsepower is 450 in their prress release. When the engine is SAE certified, then we will know the actual horsepower, but with all the dyno testing GM has done with the LT1, I strongly believe they know what the ESTIMATED horsepower is. If the horsepower is 460 or 470 or 480, they would have said the ESTIMATED horsepower is 460 or 470 or 480. I doubt if there will be much, if any, difference in the LT1's ESTIMATED(by GM) horsepower and the SAE certified horsepower. Just as good a chance that the SAE certified horsepower could come in at 445 HP as it could be at 455 HP. That's why GM ESTIMATED the horsepower, not to sandbag us. What would be the purpose in sandbagging the horsepower when, in a couple of months, we will know the SAE certified horsepower rating?

How do you know GM is "baiting us" with the 450 HP they released? Do you have any GM dyno sheets of the LT1 you would care to share with us?

Oh no, GM would never sandbag us nope, and they would never dribble out videos over a period of months, baiting us with split second images of cammoed C7s, designed to generate huge buzz on the internet. nope they would never do that. They had no idea that when they said estimated hp or 450+ or final hp released on 1-13-13, there would be any extra hype generated. :rolleyes:

They said the same thing about the ZL1 ....450 came in at 480...

UM,that would be 550 and 580...

It will be MORE than 450 hp. How much more is the only real question.

Yeah, i doubt GM will miss out on an extra $1195 for NPP exhaust, so at least 456 hp. :flag:

Funny and true..

Great point!:rofl:

Its not really 1100 extra except to the one 78 year old lady who insisted on keeping the stock exhaust before NPP came along. :)

:confused2: ???

Please scan or post it up, I'd love to take a look at the article. Couldn't find it online.

Ya I'd love to read it too.

I like that part. :thumbs: :D
475hp would be nice...but I'm counting on only 460-465ish as a final rating.

I'm traveling today I will post it once I get to my hotel.

Someone needs to start a two question survey.

Will the BASE C7 have more than 450HP? Yes or No

Will the BASE C7 weigh less than 3000 lbs? Yes or No

GM will find a way to advertise the the 'base' car at 2950-2975.

This with an increase in power would be pretty pretty nice indeed if true.

AND would result in a 1/2 sec better ET in the 1/4 mile run.

Will the bi-mode exhaust be standard like it is on the ZL1?

Yes over 450
No under 3000

Maybe they want to sell all these C6 Corvettes sitting on lots before telling everyone the replacement Vette will make an extra 40-50hp over what they are selling now?

My inside sources at GM tell me it will actually be 451 hp

Ha!you hit the nail on the head for minor Hp differences.


Please list your name below if you could tell whether a car has 450 or 475 hp in a blind test??? I am being serious...

I know I couldn't in legal driving on road conditions.

I have both articles scanned and ready to go. Photobucket will not let me upload a pdf file though. If any would here would like for me to email it to them, so that they can upload it let me know.

I have no doubt that if I drove a 450hp car, and then immediately drove the same type of car with 5% more power, I could tell which was a touch more powerful. I also have no doubt that I would guess the HP numbers wrong in a blind test, especially in a car that's 15% lighter than my daily driver.

You really think that's what "estimated" means? You really think there's any chance in hell that GM would "estimate" 450 hp and actually deliver 445??? :crazy2:

The C7 haters are gonna be eating crow when the performance specs are finally revealed

.....I guarantee it.....:)

Like I said...the C6 is gonna get old quick come 01-13-13

This line of reasoning continues to be completely illogical. By that same thought process, there's no difference between 430 and 450, so why not just keep the LS3? But then there's no difference between 430 and 400, either, so maybe we should go back to the LS2. But then there's no difference between 400 and 380, so maybe they should just switch some some turbo V6... You can go on and on. Plus, if there was really no point to small HP changes, then so much of the aftermarket would not exist.

Part of it is just bragging rights and marketing, but more importantly: a little extra HP is always better than a little less HP when it comes to performance.

Ironically, though, your reasoning is correct in a sense.There may not be much of a difference between 450 and 475, just like there is an even smaller one between 450 and 436. That's why many of us want ~475. Because there IS a fairly significant difference between 436 and 475.

Try #1 , Crappy hotel scanner and my first time using photobucket if you dont like it...oh well...lol

I hope so. In my scenario, I can't afford to buy a C7 with no discounts, which there probably won't be any to start. But there is a 2012 base coupe sitting on a lot here that I hope to get pretty cheap once the C7 debuts. And I will get a full factory warranty and 3LT and an LS3 and great mileage and a corvette and ........................... well, you get my drift.

Get your checkbook ready :) :thumbs:

Ha I got it to work!
http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/...njection/3.png

Yeah this coming from a guy that does not even own a Corvette...I'd love to see where you stand come Jan 13th.

what a awesome read- Thank for sharing

No problem:cheers:

Great article...thanks. Am even more excited about the C7 now!

LOL...

I could have had a Vette already but I aint that old and I wanted to wait for the C7.....you know...for the younger generation :)

.....and it's only common sense that the C7 WILL outperform the C6.

You really think Chevy is gonna screw up on the HALO car????

.......Give me a break...NOT gonna happen

...The C6 was better than the C5 and the C7 will be no different...

....I dont even have to wait until Jan 13, 2013 to know that....

...I dont need to own a Vette to know that either....

... My deposit on my C7 has already been placed.....thats how SURE I am

Let's be nice everyone

I agree that it's going to be one for the record books. I bet the C7 will be a hair behind C6Z06 in performance, and will have one hell of an interior.

Thanks for scanning and posting the article, 1320! Great reading. Interesting they note that it uses the same pistons as the LSA AND the LS9, as the LSA uses the hypereutectic aluminum pistons, while the LS9 has forged. Oh well, probably just a typo, still a great article!

With the base C7 Vette running 0-60 in under 4 seconds and the new shape, you may be right, but that may be a good thing for people that want a used C6: :D

Good article.

Thanx.:thumbs:

I hope to have a used C6 for sale in about a year...

:rofl:

To the OP, thanks for posting the article!

The new engine seems terrific . . . but can it make up for the so-so styling of the new car?

IMHO, the C6 is a very hard act to follow, stying-wise, anyway.

CAST PISTONS!:ack:

475 sounds about right...3000 lbs

"Hypereutectic" refers to the thermodynamic characteristics of the specific alloy, not to its method of manufacture (cast vs forged, etc.)...

Especially since a bone stock C6 GS with manual 6-speed will already do 0-60 in 3.95 seconds...

:iagree: This cannot be stated strongly enough. We're not talking the C3/C4 hand-off here. The C6 is already one hell of an impressive car, and extremely easy on the eyes as well...whereas the C7's styling is, well, I'm being generous when I refer to it as "unfortunate" at best, and "Hot Wheels" or "Anime" at worst. The technical advancements are not be enough to outweigh the gross esthetic stumble...JMO. It's just too ugly...

Guys on a unicycle and with a propeller cap on used to be allowed to have an opinion on the C7 ZR1. I guess things are heating up.

Please show me the actual c7 that you guys have seen. The real car...not a rendering

There are a handful near Novi, Mi right now.

With the right swipe card and retinal scan you are good to go.

I see allot of Older guys driving those Hemi Challengers.
Corvette will never be "Old mans car" to people who really understand and drive Vettes IMO.
Yes there maybe some older guys driving them but they are not old @ heart :thumbs:

Hey I was just funnin about the age thing

.......I was thinking about a C6 but the C7 was around the corner and I knew I would be kicking myself later if I pulled that C6 trigger :)

The NPP..The zl1 has a system that opens at idle. That is when you are sitting at a light or sitting in a parking place the system does its by-pass thing. That makes the idle nasty. Then when you drive away it quiets down until you nail it. Then it works like the C6 system. My bet is the C7 will do the same hint. From what I have read the middle two pipes are by-passers and the out side pipes are the quiet (relatively) outlets.

:cheers:

Lol, all I need is a home address. Leave the rest to me (cue Mission Impossible music)

I stand corrected, thank you for the info! But when GM lists the specs for the LS9, they say "Forged pistons", when they talk of the other pistons, including LSA, they always say, "hypereutectic aluminum". From what I've read: Hypereutectic pistons can be forged, but typically are only cast, because the extra expense of forging is not justified when cast pistons are considered strong enough for stock applications. It seems that in most online car circles, people mean cast hypereutectic aluminum when they refer to a piston as hypereutectic. Perhaps that explains why the article refers to both the LSA and LS9 as hypereutectic, maybe GM forged the hypereutectic pistons for the LS9, vs. cast for LSA?

While it's possible to forge or cast a wide variety of alloys, some are better for casting while others are better for forging. For forging, you want an alloy with a grain structure that "flows" or aligns more readily during the forging process. If correctly done, this results in a stronger piston because the grain structure will be aligned along the load paths. Unfortunately, many forge-able alloys have a higher coefficient of expansion (partially because the forging process results in a denser grain structure...there's just more aluminum packed into a given volume) than the preferred casting alloys do, so they grow and change shape more when going from cold to operating temperature than the "casting alloys" do. Forged pistons are stronger, but their greater expansion when heating requires greater bore clearances when cold. Those greater cold clearances have the potential to negatively affect ring seal just when cold engine emissions are beginning to come under scrutiny. Modern cast pistons are much more dimensionally stable and so can be run with much tighter clearances. If less-than-forged strength will suffice, engineers will choose cast jugs every time. There is too much upside to doing so for them to ignore all the benefits of those tighter clearances, not to mention the lower cost. When spread over thousands (or even millions) of engines, that's a real consideration, too...

Of course it will be faster than a C6. The question is how much faster...

I want to know the answer to that myself :thumbs:

And how much quicker. And how much more responsive. And how much more fuel efficient.

After reading the whole Hot Rod article and some of the other articles put out that indicate GM is attempting to prevent the ECM from being reflashed, my suspicion is that GM will offer it's own Stage One/Stage Two type reflashes that will bump up the horsepower significantly beyond the 450 mark, and will retain your warranty.

This will allow GM to be able to tap into the money that used to go to the aftermarket for tuning and modification.

:iagree: And makes a ton of sense (and cents) from a GM profit perspective. :yesnod:

Now that's a different spin..albiet a good one!

Highly doubtful.

Maybe. But I can certainly envision a scenario where GM releases a base model car with around 450hp, but you can pay the dealer a fee ($1,000 or so?) to have it upgraded via a reflash and maybe another performance part or two added (CAI) that will increase it to nearly 500hp but still retain your factory warranty.

If I read the Hot Rod article correct, GM is already doing this with some of their V6 Engines. So it isn't too far out of the realm of possibilities.

From what I've also read, it appears GM has put some pretty serious encryption algorithms into the new ECM as well to try to prevent it from being reflashed by anyone except a GM dealership.

It might also explain the "snicker" that the GM Engineers had over the announced 450 HP number. Yea, its 450 hp in stock trim, but with the turn of a couple electronic dials it can climb close to Z06 territory. It would seem like a smart marketing move on GM's part, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

A little more (460 maybe)

A little more (under 3100 would be amazing in a modern sports car. I don't think it's feasable to do under 3000.)

:thumbs:

I don't think GM is doing this with any of their V6 engines. They did do it with the Cobalt SS/TC, Saturn Sky RedLine, and Solstice GXP 2.0L turbo SIDI "LNF" engine, though. Stock output was 260hp/260tq but with the GM dealer installed upgrade, the numbers were boosted to 290hp/340tq with retained factory warranty.

A reflash for more power is much easier with a boosted car where you can raise the boost pressure though, so I also think it seems less likely with the LT1.

How much did they charge for that?

Wonder if Chuck Cow could break the ECM................:yesnod:
Just sayin'
Mike :canadaflag:

iirc it was ~600 bucks. At one point I had the GM press release saved as a bookmark, I'll see if I can find it. I do recall that the auto versions gained less of a boost, and it was also vehicle specific (auto vs. manual; fwd Cobalt/HHR vs. rwd Sky/Solstice), so it seems GM was pretty careful to boost each vehicle application to only what they knew the rest of the drive-line could take while being comfortable with honoring the warranty. The LNF was a fully forged engine with SIDI, a dual scroll turbo, and independent VVT--nice little engine.

EDIT: Google search returned some additional reading:
http://www.gmpartshouse.com/19212670...bo-upgrade-kit
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...lstice-sky-hhr

Looks like GM Parts house has it for 500, but the original article cited 650.

That article is particularly interesting as it mentions unlocking an ECU "learning feature", "enables the computer to adapt to and benefit from basic bolt-on mods such as intakes and exhausts." I've never done any research to see how effective that actually was. The article also reminded me that part of the tune raised the redline.

Thanks for the post interesting read and I will be wanting a new C7 in the future.

Don't get too excited.....yet.
 

Thanks Chuck!

I think GM would be wise to consider a dual or even triple step tuning strategy that includes normal, drag, track. They could offer this option as a MR-like switch or as part of the DIC system settings.:steering:

An option like this could offer specific engine control, traction control, and even suspension settings.

I believe the initial press release said "estimated 450 hp" on one portion and "at least 450 hp" on another portion. :thumbs:

Heavy equipment manufacturers have offered multiple power ratings this way for years, the extra charge covers the slightly increased risk of in-warranty failure plus a healthy contribution to profit.

I am surprised the major automotive companies have not heavily used this method to greatly increase per-unit profit for performance oriented vehicles. Instead of the nickle and dime approach of cutting costs/increasing profit via removing under hood lighting and other little used features by playing the "what the consumer won't miss" game they could instead play in the higher potential "I want more power" game. GM certainly had a taste of this with the number of people paying the large up-charge for NPP exhaust.

They could even include a gas-saving mode that would be the only mode in which AFM and the like would happen.

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...mallBlock.html

The official GM press release on the LT1 directly from GM's site.

They mention 450 horsepower three times and not one time did they say "at least 450 hp" in their press release.





"■Preliminary output of 450 horsepower (335 kW) and 450 lb.-ft. of torque (610 Nm)"

"DETROIT – When the all-new 2014 Chevrolet Corvette arrives late next year, it will be powered by a technologically advanced, racing-proven 6.2L V-8 delivering an estimated 450 horsepower and helping produce 0-60 times in less than four seconds."

“The Holy Grail for developing a performance car is delivering greater performance and more power with greater fuel economy and that’s what we’ve achieved,” said Tadge Juechter, Corvette chief engineer. “By leveraging technology, we are able to get more out of every drop of gasoline and because of that we expect the new Corvette will be the most fuel-efficient 450 horsepower car on the market.”