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-   -   Darton sleeved 427 w/ L92 heads project begins (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c5-tech/2504538-darton-sleeved-427-w-l92-heads-project-begins.html)

WKMCD 01-13-2010 06:43 AM

Shawn sent some pics last night. The drive train is out and dissasembly begins.

The always photogenic Ed.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...003EDINCAR.jpg

Doing one last baseline pull on the 403. They use an in-ground DynoJet - also known as the "Heartbreaker". The numbers were down less than 2% of last spring. No adjustments of any kind were made. It's always been extremely consistent.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...02DYNOPULL.jpg

Next it's up on the lift. A keen eye will spot the LG GT2 coilovers and PFADT sway bars.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...0004ONLIFT.jpg

Everything unbolted and unplugged and the car is raised off the drive train.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...1-12-10011.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...1-12-10014.jpg

I run an ECS tranny brace with an RPM 3.90 rear.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...VETRAINOUT.jpg

I change the oil very frequently - everytime I have the motor out.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...RAININGOIL.jpg

So long to the 403.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...1-12-10020.jpg


Shawn will be sending more pics of the dissasembly, parts for the new build, machine work and assembly. We'll post the progress and build results all the way until I pick it up with the 427.

phils C5 vette 01-13-2010 06:52 AM

while the drivetrain is down, are you gonna change the TT bushings again. You know you beat them up

allngn_c5 01-13-2010 07:34 AM

Great pics !!! I remember the first time I saw my car like that. I was in disbelief. Amazing how easy everything comes out and goes back in with a lift.

Question on the couplers. Are you running stockers, or do you have 1 stock and one solid? I have a solid coupler in the rear, stock up front.

WKMCD 01-13-2010 07:43 AM


Originally Posted by allngn_c5 (Post 1572737151)
Great pics !!! I remember the first time I saw my car like that. I was in disbelief. Amazing how easy everything comes out and goes back in with a lift.

Question on the couplers. Are you running stockers, or do you have 1 stock and one solid? I have a solid coupler in the rear, stock up front.

I run BMW couplers front and rear.

allngn_c5 01-13-2010 08:09 AM

Whats the advantage with BMW couplers vs gm stockers ?

edcmat-l1 01-13-2010 08:11 AM


Originally Posted by allngn_c5 (Post 1572737327)
Whats the advantage with BMW couplers vs gm stockers ?

None. Same part.

allngn_c5 01-13-2010 08:20 AM

Got it.

ajg1915 01-13-2010 12:37 PM


Originally Posted by WKMCD (Post 1572737192)
I run BMW couplers front and rear.

Probably a good time to upgrade to 2001 and later torque tube to handle the increased power and torque.

Lots of $$$ for a few more ponies over what you had. Why rebuild ?

WKMCD 01-13-2010 12:42 PM


Originally Posted by ajg1915 (Post 1572740171)
Probably a good time to upgrade to 2001 and later torque tube to handle the increased power and torque.

Lots of $$$ for a few more ponies over what you had. Why rebuild ?

It's pretty tired with a LOT of leakdown - 25-30% on a few and I wanted to replace the clutch anyways.

I'm fortunate that I had a very good business year so I get to do some things I want to. Not any more complicated than that.

ajg1915 01-13-2010 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by WKMCD (Post 1572740240)
It's pretty tired with a LOT of leakdown - 25-30% on a few.

I'm fortunate that I had a very good business year so I get to do some things I want to. Not any more complicated than that.


Glad business was good for you. :thumbs:

How many miles did you have on that motor ? Kind of curious as to why you're having cylinder leakage since the motor is not that old.

BTW, question about the rebuild was more about why than $$$, just was curious since you're weren't doing FI which seems to be the most prevalent reason.

WKMCD 01-13-2010 12:54 PM


Originally Posted by ajg1915 (Post 1572740296)
Glad business was good for you. :thumbs:

How many miles did you have on that motor ? Kind of curious as to why you're having cylinder leakage since the motor is not that old.

BTW, question about the rebuild was more about why than $$$, just was curious since you're weren't doing FI which seems to be the most prevalent reason.

The 403 has about 16-18k miles on it. This motor has generated a lot of crankcase pressure since day one. We've done a huge amount of L92 R&D on it and the leak-down is now 25-30% on a few cylinders and 15-20% on a few more. It's time I do something. For the cost of the liners I can take a freshening of the motor to a solid 427 build. I like the challenge of making good power NA. If I was a gross power guy, of course it would FI of some sort..

Like I've been saying for the past 3 years - this is an ongoing science experiment. I've been know to take the road less travelled more than a few times in my life. :)

ajg1915 01-13-2010 01:00 PM


Originally Posted by WKMCD (Post 1572740369)
The 403 has about 16-18k miles on it. This motor has generated a lot of crankcase pressure since day one. We've done a huge amount of L92 R&D on it and the leak-down is now 25-30% on a few cylinders and 15-20% on a few more. It's time I do something. For the cost of the liners I can take a freshening of the motor to a solid 427 build. I like the challenge of making good power NA. If I was a gross power guy, of course it would FI of some sort..

Like I've been saying for the past 3 years - this is an ongoing science experiment. I've been know to take the road less travelled more than a few times in my life. :)

Hi Kevin,

I too have followed the road a less traveled a few times with my blue coupe project car, so I know that road. :rofl:

I had followed your build over on LS1tech and here since yours was one of the earlier builds. I'll be interested to know what caused the huge cylinder pressure differences ?

:cheers:
Tony

aweil 01-13-2010 02:16 PM


Originally Posted by WKMCD (Post 1572740369)
The 403 has about 16-18k miles on it. This motor has generated a lot of crankcase pressure since day one. We've done a huge amount of L92 R&D on it and the leak-down is now 25-30% on a few cylinders and 15-20% on a few more. It's time I do something. For the cost of the liners I can take a freshening of the motor to a solid 427 build. I like the challenge of making good power NA. If I was a gross power guy, of course it would FI of some sort..

Like I've been saying for the past 3 years - this is an ongoing science experiment. I've been know to take the road less travelled more than a few times in my life. :)

Did you leak it when it was fresh? It would be interesting to see leakdown vs. time.

Have the shop check the rings on the pistons they pull out. If the edges are sharp on the rings, they're done.

edcmat-l1 01-13-2010 03:05 PM


Originally Posted by aweil (Post 1572741265)
Did you leak it when it was fresh? It would be interesting to see leakdown vs. time.

Have the shop check the rings on the pistons they pull out. If the edges are sharp on the rings, they're done.

On the very first head and cam swap (way back when) the leakdown was pretty severe for the age and mileage of the motor.

When I first met Kevin, we both stood and watched as his car was run on a dyno. This must have been 06 or so. We both commented on the amount of blow by coming from the VC vent. It was practically brand new then.

WKMCD 01-13-2010 03:27 PM

Venting the crankcase without puking oil all over the place has always been a challenge. I've had it under control for a long time but early on I must have gone through a half dozen iterations.

And what do you mean by "one of the first"??? This was the first :yesnod:

BTW: I've followed your build and it's been very interesting as well. You're probably like me when someone says there is only one way to do something - I do it the other way. :thumbs:

WKMCD 01-13-2010 05:02 PM

Shawn has the engine torn down and PM'd me this afternoon.

A couple things,measured your bores smallest part of the smallest bore is 4.0050

largest part of the largest bore is 4.0085-that's .0035 difference.Some bore had as much as .0025 taper and out of round-pretty much like every other SDxx engine.The pistons were 4.0005-so you had as much as .008 piston to wall clearance.
I'll send you some picks tonight but you can see where the main caps were walking around due to the stock main bolts.


I'm very confident that when I get it back you won't see those kinds of tolerances.

No wonder it didn't make any power. :crazy:

ajg1915 01-13-2010 05:31 PM

^ Wow, that's a lot of wear or someone did a real bad job of measuring the bore and choose the wrong piston size.

I would not have expected that much oblonging of the cylinders since you're not really over-stroked. I see a bunch of other 4" strokers that do not seem to suffer this kind of problem.

Wondering if an iron block would fair better than an aluminum block for this type of configuration.

WKMCD 01-13-2010 05:39 PM


Originally Posted by ajg1915 (Post 1572743385)
^ Wow, that's a lot of wear or someone did a real bad job of measuring the bore and choose the wrong piston size.

I would not have expected that much oblonging of the cylinders since you're not really over-stroked. I see a bunch of other 4" strokers that do not seem to suffer this kind of problem.

Wondering if an iron block would fair better than an aluminum block for this type of configuration.

I'm not thinking it's all wear. :ack:

vettenuts 01-13-2010 08:16 PM

Curious if you bought the 403 short block?

Also, don't know too much about the Darton sleeves and installation process so I am hoping for lots of photo's from Va Speed. How is the street reliability of this type of approach?

WKMCD 01-13-2010 08:36 PM


Originally Posted by vettenuts (Post 1572745577)
Curious if you bought the 403 short block?

Also, don't know too much about the Darton sleeves and installation process so I am hoping for lots of photo's from Va Speed. How is the street reliability of this type of approach?

The short block came from SDPC. The Darton sleeves are much harder than the stock sleeves. They are also longer for better piston support at BDC. It will be more reliable than the stock block and sleeves.

We'll be posting lot's more pics.


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