Loose door panels - how hard to fix?
 

One of the issues with my new vette is loose door panels. Apparently the previous owner had them off to replace weather stripping. (On the right side, it apparently was so bad it scratched the window).

Well whoever did it, did a horse-butt job of putting the panels back on. Here is what they currently look like:

http://www.pixelmech.com/vette/leftdoor.jpg

http://www.pixelmech.com/vette/rightdoor.jpg

Obviously they rattle when you close them and the doors don't close firmly. I have no idea why they were left this way (other than laziness).

I also have a part that he bought (I have all kinds of bags of screws and such that he bought and never used) that supposedly helps the door/window not rattle - apparently they were never installed:
(Sorry for the bad pic, I put the text on the bag clearly)

http://www.pixelmech.com/vette/part.jpg

So I'm wondering how much trouble it is to take these apart and fix them up right... and should I use these anti-rattle parts he has? It seems like the panel is not hooked on right. I have nothing to reference though, so I have no idea. Any tips are appreciated!

Tom

Looks like they're not even installed correctly.

Remove them and make sure they're hooked over the top of the door snugly before screwing them in.

Those pads just push the window towards the outside to keep it tight. They have nothing to do with the panel.

Metal "arm rest savers" will help secure the panel better.

Are these internal or external pieces? (I assume internal inside the door?) Is it a big job to take these off and put them back on?

This is one of those "small" jobs where having the Helms manual really pays off. You don't have your profile filled out so I'm not sure what year your car is but judging by the end of the panels, it appears to be a '95 or '96. There is a lattice affixed to the inside of the panel that has 4 hooks on it that go into corresponding slots on the inside of the door. These lattices are made of plastic and will often be broken, so I'd check that first. If they are ok then you should be able to correctly install the panel with no trouble. Also, the factory decided to not install a screw in the ent of the panel on '95 and '96's for some reason. You can see the bracket where the screw goes in your picture, it's opposite the door latch. But the plastic inserts and drill the holes and they will help greatly. The "door savers" CC mentioned do not apply to '95 or '96's because the door panels are screwed directly into the door on these years unlike eariler cars. Best of luck and congrats on your new Vette.

They go where the handle is, on top of the panel and secure it to the metal part of the door, so you're not pulling on the plastic panel when opening it. Not even sure if that applies to newer doors. Mine is an 85.


The panels tend to crack where they hook over the door. If yours are, you can either reinforce the panel, or put some brackets on the top of the door to hold what's left of the panel better.

Where's the best place to get a Helms -ebay? Are they year specific? My car is a 95'. Are there any parts I should make sure I have before I start this? I don't think my panels are cracked, they seem in fairly good condition, but I guess you never know til they are off.

A Helms is the way to go for the detailed instructions. You just need a screwdriver and time. There is nothing special about this. You need to take off the door panel, and then reinstall it correctly. There is a lip on the top of the door panel that fits over a flange on the door sheet metal. You need the manual for the instructions on how to disassemble the door panel.

Many people get a Helms off Ebay and save a good deal. I bought mine directly from Helms for about $125. The manual is a 2 book set, if you buy off Ebay make sure you are getting both volumes. Also, there are two versions, a white one which is a preliminary version and a red one. I would get the red one.

the door panel hangs from the top and then screws hold the panel against the door. if all the screws are in place and the top keeps coming loose then its cracked ribs. once the ribs crack the panel can't hold its shape and it slips off the top lip of the door. it's very common on these cars. get your self some "J-B Weld" adhesive and give all the ribs of the door panel a generous coating then wrap the panel with masking tape tightly to keep its shape until it drys. did this fix a few years ago and it's still holding strong.
http://mysite.verizon.net/brianjbalogh/door-panel.jpg

I do not see the point in buying a Helm manual to reinstall a door panel.


Wiring diagrams / diagnostic info sure. But for basic assembly, no.

Cracked ribs, very common. Door panel spreads out and won't stay hooked on at the top. The other common problem is broken corners and cracked retainer holes at the bottom from prying it off the door and not being careful. Excellent fix advice above. When you have the door panels off for the repair job take the opportunity to examine the plastic window guides at bottom of glass toward the front. If half worn through they need to be replaced or will break soon and window will flop around in the door.

Door Panel
 

Helms manuel is not that expensive...good to have:flag:

Thanks for the detailed info! I appreciate you writing that up.

That was going to be my next question. I do plan on getting one sometime, but I have shelled out a lot of cash recently. I imagine if I take note of everything as it comes off I would be okay...

I just went through this last winter and found that all the ribs in my drivers door panel were cracked. If they're cracked they won't hold the top of the door panel on and it will keep slipping off. I had no trouble removing and reinstalling the panel and I'm not what you would call an expert at working on cars. At the time I didn't have the Helm manual but I do now and it is an excellent resource. I only had the Chilton repair guide which had adequate information about removal and reinstallation procedures for the panel. This can be purchased at your local auto parts store. I also installed an L bracket at the top of the door to hold the top of the panel on better. My repair and some more information is in the link below. Its still holding together strong. I hope this helps.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...ght=door+panel

Thanks! That is helpful. I still don't quite get what the ribs are, but I guess when I get it off I will see. The L-brackets make sense. What did you use as a glue to reinforce them?

:skep:

Even the simplest jobs have caveats that having a manual around will help you to avoid. Plus if you have never done work like this before it's good to learn the CORRECT way to do it than to go diving in because someone who has done it a number of times told you it was simple and then you crack the ribs, strip out screws or 1000 other things that could go wrong.

Get the manual, do it right the first time. One of my favorite quotes:

"Why is there never time to do it right the first time but there is always time to do it over?."

Darnit, he has a point there.

You can order them here.

http://www.factoryautomanuals.com/home.php

You can use a construction adhesive you get at a hardware store. I used a product called Titebond Polyeurathane Liquid Glue. If you look closely at my pictures in the link above you will see the ribs on the underside of my door panel. I have a 96 so mine should be similar to yours. I put a metal bracket on each side of the rib over the crack and bolted them in place. If you look at the picture the repair should be self explanatory. The liquid glue I also used to hold everything in place. Glue alone probably won't do the trick as the ribs of the door panel flex alot and there is a lot of stress every time you yank the door to close it. The glue is the white squishy stuff you see in my picture.

When you remove the panels undo all the screws with red arrows in the diagram above and don't forget to pop out the interior door light. Take your time and remove the panel slowly, disconnecting the wires in the trunk release and window switches very carefully before removing the panel all the way.

When installing the L brackets you just undo the bolts on the top of the door and place the L bracket on them. The rear one has a window buffer in the door so be ready to catch it on the inside of the door or it will fall inside the door when you remove the bolt to place the L bracket on it. I used 1" metal corner brackets from the hardware store. You bend them about 10-15 degrees towards the interior of the car for a good fit.

You may not need to repair your ribs, you won't know what it needs until you remove the panels and look the inside over. Like you said it could have just been a half @ssed door panel reinstallation. Another option if you got the cash is to purchase new door panels online for about $500 apiece.

Thanks for the clarification, it helps. Tried to bid on some manuals on eBay but like someone said, with shipping the bid keeps going over what a new one would cost anyway. I'll just get them new.

Door panel
 

A low cost option is the Haynes Manual. It's not as good as the real thing but it gives a lot of good info. Bought mine at Books A Million right after I got my 89 back in 2000. Also Newton's 101 Projects is good bathroom reading that will help.


Art


Roll Tide

Thanks for the tip!

Yours do not look as bad as mine were but this will show you what the ribs are and how they crack. I would be tempted to reinforce them even if they are not cracked yet, because eventually they will.

Door panel repair

Thanks Travis, very informative! What did you cut the aluminum with?

Glad to help. Sheet metal sheers.

That's the same way I cut the little brackets I used. I purchased a small square piece of sheet metal that had small holes equally spaced throughout. This was at the hardware store, it is like a metal plate maybe 6 inches by 6 inches. I have no idea what its really meant to be used for, all I know is I didn't have to drill holes through the sheet metal as they were already there. I cut the rib brackets out of it with shears, drilled tiny holes in the plastic ribs to line up with the brackets and bolted the brackets on. I believe Travis93 cemented his aluminum ribs on. Either way the door panel is as good as new as far as structural rigidity. Next time I have my passenger side door panel off I'm going to give it the same treatment.

Another thing to consider is the quick setting 5 minute epoxy is not as strong as the 24 hour cure type.

After trying ALL these ideas I gave up and shot 2 screws down through the top of the panel right into the door. Since they are down where the window felt is, you can't really see them. THIS worked and is holding for about 1 year now.

Well the door is getting a lot worse due to it closing over and over and being loose, so I'll have to try something this week :( I can peek enough inside now to see that at least the outside rib is cracked.

The door panel is still as flat as a flounder though with the cracked ribs on the backside. When the ribs crack the door panel loses some of its formed shape, spreads out and sticks up at the top over the door sill.

Ok, I'm getting ready to do this and I am gathering up my materials. I have the JB Weld and some cardboard to protect the door while strapping. I'm going to grab some straps this week. My neighbor said he has a ton of pop-rivets I can use. So I think the only thing left to get is the aluminum to shore up the ribs and the brackets.

What thickness aluminum should I get? Is this something I can pick up at a big box hardware store?

Let us know how it goes with pics if possible. I would think not too thick becuase you may have difficulty bending it. I have not done this yet but I need to soon. I'd also like to know what brackets to use. I read 1" L-Brackets but is that 1" horizontal or vertical on each side of the L? How many are needed to do both doors?

Thanks

I plan on trying to document it when I do it. So I should have pics for sure.

I believe they are 1" metal L brackets that can be purchased at any hardware store. If they determine the size by the diagonal distance between the ends they may be called 1.5". The ones I installed are about an inch on each length of the bracket. Anything smaller will not fit the bolts on the top of your door. Anything too big and your door panel won't fit properly. They're so cheap you could purchase a couple of sizes and use the one that fits best. Be sure to bend it towards the interior of the car once installed with a set of pliers. You may have to adjust it a few times to get the best angle to fit the door panel. I put one on the rearmost bolt and one about in the center of the drivers' door, so I did 2 per door. The key is to get a bracket that fits into the door bolts. You're just providing extra surface area for the door panel to grab onto.

The stuff I used was about 1/16 thick, I just grabbed some scrap laying around so not sure where to get it at. I would emagine most hardware stores would have something you could use. It would not have to be aluminum that's just what I had on hand.

Do you have any pictures of this? What type of screw did you use?