[Z06] Wiggle Test Done Today At Dealer- Results As Expected
03-21-2013, 06:28 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Wiggle Test Done Today At Dealer- Results As Expected
First of all, I've known Rich at Abel Chev. through numerous contacts in person at events, or on the phone, over the last 3-4 years. I already knew he was a true Corvette guy and an all around good dude. Today was the first time I actually did business with him. As we've seen so many times in posts by others here, I have to say that he really does do it right. I drove about 1 hr. 45 minutes to get there. As promised, my car was being evaluated very shortly after I arrived and, within not much more than an hour I had my results.
My 2008 Z06 had about 26,900 miles upon arrival at the dealership today. I bought it new, have done the oil changes before needed, have never tracked the car, have never beaten on it, had a Blackstone oil analysis done recently with excellent results, and it hasn't ever used any oil. The car sees redline when conditions allow but not frequently, and has never been run hard until oil temp is 160 or over. I have a zero deductible GMPP extended warranty.
The results? They showed me the measurement on one exhaust valve- front cylinder on the passenger side. It measured at a solid .0100. That's almost 3 times the acceptable tolerance. Just like in the videos we've seen, you could easily see the movement back and forth. Refer to 1981turbota's first vid in this thread to see what it looked like.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...est-video.html
Bottom line, thankfully Rich has new factory heads in stock and I'm getting a pair. He said that, as they've replaced heads recently on numerous Z06s for this problem, they've found all valves but 1 were still good. Unless I hear otherwise my existing valves will go into the new heads. His tech said the process used at the shop that puts the heads together for them includes carefully mating the valves to the seats, so if concentricity is the cause of the problem (as recently posted by Jason at Katech) that issue should be cleaned up.
Although I don't expect this to be the case, it's possible that the new heads could be back on the car as early as tomorrow. Worst case, I should get a call Monday to set up getting the free rental car back to them and picking up my Z06.
For those who are wondering, new factory LS7 heads are trickling in as they become available. I'd bet that proactive folks like Rich are getting them first, since he actively searches for availability. For those of us still covered by some type of warranty, it's good to know they are becoming available at least on a limited basis but your choice of dealership could make all the difference.
My 2008 Z06 had about 26,900 miles upon arrival at the dealership today. I bought it new, have done the oil changes before needed, have never tracked the car, have never beaten on it, had a Blackstone oil analysis done recently with excellent results, and it hasn't ever used any oil. The car sees redline when conditions allow but not frequently, and has never been run hard until oil temp is 160 or over. I have a zero deductible GMPP extended warranty.
The results? They showed me the measurement on one exhaust valve- front cylinder on the passenger side. It measured at a solid .0100. That's almost 3 times the acceptable tolerance. Just like in the videos we've seen, you could easily see the movement back and forth. Refer to 1981turbota's first vid in this thread to see what it looked like.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...est-video.html
Bottom line, thankfully Rich has new factory heads in stock and I'm getting a pair. He said that, as they've replaced heads recently on numerous Z06s for this problem, they've found all valves but 1 were still good. Unless I hear otherwise my existing valves will go into the new heads. His tech said the process used at the shop that puts the heads together for them includes carefully mating the valves to the seats, so if concentricity is the cause of the problem (as recently posted by Jason at Katech) that issue should be cleaned up.
Although I don't expect this to be the case, it's possible that the new heads could be back on the car as early as tomorrow. Worst case, I should get a call Monday to set up getting the free rental car back to them and picking up my Z06.
For those who are wondering, new factory LS7 heads are trickling in as they become available. I'd bet that proactive folks like Rich are getting them first, since he actively searches for availability. For those of us still covered by some type of warranty, it's good to know they are becoming available at least on a limited basis but your choice of dealership could make all the difference.
03-21-2013, 06:36 PM
#2
Racer
Can you check with your dealer,as I heard you get replacement casting with guides installed and the re use your old valves and springs out of your old heads...
On head replacement you don't get a complete assembled set of heads.
Just curious about that..
On head replacement you don't get a complete assembled set of heads.
Just curious about that..
03-21-2013, 06:43 PM
#5
Race Director
Thread Starter
Correct, the new heads come with guides installed but w/o valvetrain components. Upon reassembly, if any existing parts are worn they replace them with new parts.
03-21-2013, 06:45 PM
#6
Racer
If you drove it over a hour to get there and they had results in a hour or so...Imagine what your result would have been if the car had 8 hours to cool down.Being that some of the valvetrain still had to be expanded some from the heat of the drive there.
03-21-2013, 06:57 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
Hey Les,
Glad things worked out for you. If you've read some of the threads here, guys were waiting weeks for heads.
Rich and Abel did a great job on mine and a friends. I'm sure yours will do as well.
Glad things worked out for you. If you've read some of the threads here, guys were waiting weeks for heads.
Rich and Abel did a great job on mine and a friends. I'm sure yours will do as well.
Rich and the entire staff at Able that I met are all good people, eager to make the customer happy.
03-21-2013, 07:12 PM
#10
It takes me back to a somewhat brusque post about the number of heads with guides found to have been out of spec by WCCH.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...post1582734003
03-21-2013, 08:44 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
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Rich is a stand up guy, and so is the entire staff at Abel. I always drive for more than an hour just to have them work on my car.
The only interesting thing about what you said is that the last time I was there (been awhile now), I spoke with Rich and the head Corvette mechanic and they had both only seen like 1 or 2 cars with valve problems. One of them being a C5 at that.....and since almost every Corvette in the Bay Area goes to Abel, that made me feel better.
I'm interested in seeing if this has now changed, and what their take is on this whole issue. Hopefully Rich will see this thread and chime in.
The only interesting thing about what you said is that the last time I was there (been awhile now), I spoke with Rich and the head Corvette mechanic and they had both only seen like 1 or 2 cars with valve problems. One of them being a C5 at that.....and since almost every Corvette in the Bay Area goes to Abel, that made me feel better.
I'm interested in seeing if this has now changed, and what their take is on this whole issue. Hopefully Rich will see this thread and chime in.
03-21-2013, 09:06 PM
#13
Race Director
Thread Starter
Thanks Alvin! Life is good here and I hope the same is true there in ZR1 land.
03-21-2013, 09:23 PM
#14
Race Director
Thread Starter
Rich is a stand up guy, and so is the entire staff at Abel. I always drive for more than an hour just to have them work on my car.
The only interesting thing about what you said is that the last time I was there (been awhile now), I spoke with Rich and the head Corvette mechanic and they had both only seen like 1 or 2 cars with valve problems. One of them being a C5 at that.....and since almost every Corvette in the Bay Area goes to Abel, that made me feel better.
I'm interested in seeing if this has now changed, and what their take is on this whole issue. Hopefully Rich will see this thread and chime in.
The only interesting thing about what you said is that the last time I was there (been awhile now), I spoke with Rich and the head Corvette mechanic and they had both only seen like 1 or 2 cars with valve problems. One of them being a C5 at that.....and since almost every Corvette in the Bay Area goes to Abel, that made me feel better.
I'm interested in seeing if this has now changed, and what their take is on this whole issue. Hopefully Rich will see this thread and chime in.
Things have changed in the last 1-2 years regarding what they've seen and learned. I won't post the numbers (I'll leave that decision up to Rich if he ever sees this thread) but they've put new heads on a number of Z06s in the last few months due to excessive valve guide clearance. The tech working on my car said that he's only seen 2 grenaded engines stemming from this problem but the number of Z06s with bad guides vs. the number of Z06s they've checked is surprisingly high.
03-21-2013, 09:35 PM
#15
Drifting
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The original post, tells us a lot about this problem having been more widespread than many of us initially believed.
It takes me back to a somewhat brusque post about the number of heads with guides found to have been out of spec by WCCH.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...post1582734003
It takes me back to a somewhat brusque post about the number of heads with guides found to have been out of spec by WCCH.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...post1582734003
03-21-2013, 09:37 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
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I agree. I was also really impressed with the tech who's doing the work on my car. He's been at it a long time and clearly knows his stuff. Nice guy too. On a side note, he found that the front of my oil pan is leaking and will replace the gasket under warranty too.
Things have changed in the last 1-2 years regarding what they've seen and learned. I won't post the numbers (I'll leave that decision up to Rich if he ever sees this thread) but they've put new heads on a number of Z06s in the last few months due to excessive valve guide clearance. The tech working on my car said that he's only seen 2 grenaded engines stemming from this problem but the number of Z06s with bad guides vs. the number of Z06s they've checked is surprisingly high.
Things have changed in the last 1-2 years regarding what they've seen and learned. I won't post the numbers (I'll leave that decision up to Rich if he ever sees this thread) but they've put new heads on a number of Z06s in the last few months due to excessive valve guide clearance. The tech working on my car said that he's only seen 2 grenaded engines stemming from this problem but the number of Z06s with bad guides vs. the number of Z06s they've checked is surprisingly high.
I think the time I asked them, they weren't doing checks...it was just how many have you seen grenade due to valves dropping. So during that time I guess their level of knowledge, and response on the issue was correct.
03-21-2013, 09:58 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
Reuse the exhaust valves???
Well, I am not liking this at all. My opinion, which is worth what you just paid for it, is that the sodium-filled OEM exhaust valves are fairly fragile, and I am not happy about putting a valve that has been working in a mismachined guide for thousands of miles back into the engine. I guess I will pay to have new valves in mine, rather than take the chance on reinstalling damaged goods.
Earlier I asked Richard at WCCH whether they are willing to rebuild my heads with OEM exhaust valves, so I could stay with beehive valve springs. The answer was yes, so long as the exhaust valves that go in were new, so I guess that WCCH does not want to instally valves with collateral damage either.
I was really hoping that GM was having their dealers install complete heads, rather than build up new heads with old components. This was more a concern about the skillset available at the dealerships than anything else.
Oh well. Mine goes in on Monday, and the wiggle test already shows the need for at least one head.
Earlier I asked Richard at WCCH whether they are willing to rebuild my heads with OEM exhaust valves, so I could stay with beehive valve springs. The answer was yes, so long as the exhaust valves that go in were new, so I guess that WCCH does not want to instally valves with collateral damage either.
I was really hoping that GM was having their dealers install complete heads, rather than build up new heads with old components. This was more a concern about the skillset available at the dealerships than anything else.
Oh well. Mine goes in on Monday, and the wiggle test already shows the need for at least one head.
03-21-2013, 10:36 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
I would ask if they would install bronze guides, SS valves, and new springs. My dealership said they would have done that for me had I asked - it just would have voided my warranty, so I would have tried to cash it out. I've heard about 10 worn guides for every 1 that checked out ok - this is such BS. Were they all machined incorrectly? Or is this a fatal design flaw? Yah, yah, yah....I'll know after I put a few more miles on my new heads.
