Calderone

Hi everyone, Adventure time again !
Yes , what you might think, Super Ram must come off again !
Guys , just came back on the road like a month ago, car ran very good
after many upgrades and a custom tune , but i needed more fun and i ordered a Vigilante converter.

What got me into all my upgrades last year was my search for a strange noise that was coming and going
it was like a "pee pee pee" or something like valves clacking.

I ended up swapping heads,intake (SR),cam,TB,water pump,injectors,roller rockers etc.

When i started my car back at the beginning of September i was pleased that i would never hear that damn noise again,since many of the old components were gone ! But today ! it appeared again !

Valve clicking around the passenger side,cyl #8.
Pulled valve covers today and start tightening the valves,the roller rockers and polylocks were tight and fine,but how come it get loose ?

So,there is no much thinking on this one, the only element i reused from my original build were my lifters ! they have like 2800 miles they were brand new but maybe it was a bad quality lifter !
Seems like they are tired and they doesnt hold the pressure or something and they get loose ...
that's what i think at least,now doing as search i found this thread started by scorp508
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...placement.html

He had same problem im having but after a lifter replacement , his problem was still there !!!
So

A) I want / need to know the outcome of his problem B)I don't want to buy/install new lifters with no results !!!

Today went for an oil change,noise was still there.
i think i can feel poor car performance since this noise came back !

Now,of course i started quoting lifters asap , plus i will have to buy Intake gaskets,and Super Ram gaskets
which adds to the money i need, this problem comes just in bad timing since a week ago i ordered a Vigilante converter $700 plus $160 in shipping alone !

I want to be 100% sure if the lifters are the source of my problem !
im 90% positive on that since all of the other components are brand new except for the block !


I want to buy good quality lifters so i did a research and this are my candidates :

COMP Cams High Energy Hydraulic Roller Lifters $209.95
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-850-16/
For engines originally equipped with a roller cam. Uses OEM lifter guides and retainers.
These High Energy hydraulic roller lifters are for use with the newly designed hydraulic roller cam series from COMP Cams, or as a performance replacement for stock hydraulic roller lifters. You must be certain that the lifter is correct for the type of block used



COMP Cams Pro Magnum Hydraulic Roller Lifters $219.95
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-875-16/
Reduced travel OEM type lifter.
For engines originally equipped with a roller cam. Uses OEM lifter guides and retainers.
These COMP Cams Pro Magnum hydraulic roller lifters are specifically designed to perform at higher engine speeds. When engines are equipped with a hydraulic roller camshaft, high rpm is limited by the improper positioning of the internal piston, as the lifter inevitably "pumps up." This improper location results in broken valves, and, therefore, leads to lost power or sometimes even engine failure. These lifters offer a distinct advantage over standard high-performance hydraulic lifters, especially in race applications where a hydraulic lifter must be used.

"Reduced travel OEM type lifter" that got my attention !
Now the expensive Crane lifters :


Crane Cams 10530-16 Crane Hydraulic Roller Lifters $285.95 (I think this are too much $$$)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-10530-16/
Crane hydraulic roller lifters are designed for easy installation without machining on late model blocks, and they feature check-ball internal valving to prevent pump-up. They're precision CNC-machined, and many are equipped with Crane's anti-rotation guide bars. These lifters are available in an OE version, and in a retrofit version for vehicles without OE hydraulic roller lifters.
Notes For use with standard GM alignment bars. (i have no idea what's the GM Alignment bar)


I really need help on this one i want to definetely kill the problem
and i don't want to touch my valves ever,i don't mind taking off the Super Ram and Intake base if this problem won't come back !

Maybe i will polish my intake base "while im there" ! ! !

GREGGPENN

If you WERE happy with the way your car idled, just replace your lifters with GM lifters (part GM 12499225). That's assuming this thread doesn't lead to another conclusion/action. GM lifters are definitely the best bang for the buck for your application!

If you wanted a smoother idle and/or more brakes, Rhoads lifters sound pretty cool.

What ended up being your smoke problem? Jon Banner mentioned you might have an oil seal issue? Any connection here?

Valve lash can vary based on the engine temp at adjustment btw. (Or, of course, if they were incorrectly adjusted the first time! Another possibility is the clearance are too tight this time.)

Also, curious if you installed a new distributor gear with your new cam?

twin540

How many time have you had to adjust you're rockers? I had to adjust mine like three times they would get loose at about 1000 miles and I could feel the loss of power.

87 vette 81 big girl

Hi,

Are You using stock GM Rocker Arms ? I dont think You are with all the previous MODS you have made already.

Do You have Poly-Lock style rocker nuts used with aluminum or stainless steel roller rocker arms?

The Poly lock style locknuts, with them you DONT tighten down the Hex Allen screw down tight alone.........they will come loose again very soon.

To tighten down the Poly locks, first back of the allen screw about 3 or 4 turns OUT counter clockwise.

Next loosen the main poly lock body a couple of turns.

Then wait about 30 seconds to allow the hydraulic lifter to RELAX, allowing the pushrod plunger seat move back to the snap ring retainer on its own.

Then with a 5/8" wrench, and your other free hand on the pushrod, turn the polylock down till just the pushrod quits spinning freely.

Then turn the poly lock outside body about 1/4 to 3/4 turn more.

How much more you turn down or preload the lifter is personal choice,

on performance cars i go 1/4 to 1/2 turn from ZERO lifter Preload.

On a pure street driven - stock car i go 3/4 turn down from ZERO lifter preload.

You must make sure you are 180 degrees away from the Camshaft Lobe or ON THE BASE CIRCLE OF THE CAM. MANY DIFFERENT METHODS TO GET TO THE BASE CIRCLE OF THE CAM TO SET LIFTERS. I PREFER THE METHOD OUTLINED IN THE COMP CAMS CATALOUGE IN THE BACK COVER ON CAM INSTALLATION TIPS AND ADJUSTMENT.

Any how, After You have set the Lifter preload You want in turns or required,

Back off the poly lock about 1/8 of a turn counter clockwise.

Now with all Allen wrench, turn down the setscrew till it just bottoms out on the rocker arm stud. While holding the poly lock hex with a 5/8" wrench - the closed box end of the wrench.

NOW TURN THE THE POLY LOCK OUTER BODY AND THE ALLEN SCREW TOGETHER IN A SMOOTH AND UNIFORM MOTION WITH BOTH HANDS USING THE 5/8" WRENCH AND THE ALLEN WRENCH DOWN CLOCKWISE 1/8 OF A TURN.

YOU ARE DONE WITH THAT VALVE. JUST HAVE 15 MORE TO SET CORRECTLY IN SAME MANNER AS DESCRIBED ABOVE.

BE SURE TO BE CONSISTENT SETTING EACH VALVE OUT THE 16 ON YOUR ENGINE. EACH WITH SAME LIFTER PRELOAD IN 1/4, 1/2, OR 3/4 TURN DOWN FROM ZERO LIFTER PRELOAD.

THE LIFTER NOISE - ROCKER ARM NOISE SHOULD BE GONE FOR GOOD.

IF NOT THERE IS A DEFECTIVE LIFTER. KIND OF RARE THESE DAYS WITH MODERN CAMSHAFTS AND LIFTERS. BUT DOES HAPPEN ON OCCASION.

9 TIMES OUT OF 10, INCORRECT INSTALLATION AND ADJUSTMENT IS THE REAL CULPRIT OF ROCKER ARM OR LIFTER NOISE, AND INCORRECT ADJUSTMENT - LOCKDOWN OF THE POLYLOCKS. AND THE POLYLOCKS BACKING OFF.

SOUNDS MORE COMPLICATED THAN IT REALLY IS ADJUSTING LIFTERS AND LOCKING DOWN POLY LOCKS THE PROPER WAY SO THEY DONT BACK OFF.

AFTER ADJUSTING 2 OR 3 VALVES, YOU WILL HAVE THE HANG OF IT.

GET ON COMP CAMS WEBSITE, DOWNLOAD THEIR CAMS MANUAL.

IT WILL HAVE THE EXACT PROCEDURE I USE TO ADJUST THE ONE CYLINDER AT A TIME - INTAKE AND EXAUGHST VALVES.

IF YOU HAVE AN OLD ISKENDARIEN CAMS CATALOG, THEY WILL HAVE THE EXACT SAME LIFTER ADJUSTMENT PROCEDURE OUTLINED IN IT TOO IN THE BACK OF THE CATALOG.

COMP CAMS COPIED THE LIFTER- VALVE ADJUSTMENT PROCEDURE FROM ISKENDARIEN CAMS.

LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED ANY MORE HELP. GLAD TO HELP YOU.

87 vette 81 big girl

by the way,

turning the polylock main body and the allen setcrew down together after the allen setscrew has been bottomed down by hand against the rocker arm stud,

will allow for more positive "bite" on the rocker arm stud.

They wont come loose again ever. If you follow my instructions in the previous post of mine to the "t".

IT Allows for at least 50 times more postive adjustment lockdown rather than just tuning to allen setscrew down alone.

You feel it by hand it the poly-lock locking down positively when you follow my instructions above !!

Calderone

Gregg,those GM lifters are the one i have right now
Which smoke problem ? ahhh it was the .bin only ! Now its gone
We were adjusting only because they got loose like a week ago
Yes im using a stock Dist gear,i checked that,no issues,thanks !!!



I don't want to adjust em anymore !


No im not using the stock rockers anymore , i have Crane Cams Gold series rockers with Polylocks, what causes me to think i have defective lifters is that with my old setup i used to have Stock Rockers with normal nuts,and same thing happened !
i liked your instructions on tightem them together both 5/8 and allen.
I might give them a last chance of adjustment,but the noise definetely goes away

Thanks guys !

mcm95403

Interesting that you're posting about this. I've been having the same issue with my 84. I've been suspecting that the cam is going flat, so this weekend I'm going to pull the intake and then pull the lifters out to see how the bases of them and the cam lobes look.

I've gone through the same adjustment issues you seem to have had, and each time the poly locks are tight, but the rockers are LOOSE as can be.

Calderone

guys check this old thread of mine , its like the same thing going on again !!!
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...the-heads.html

cv67

Inspect the rocker arm on the noisy valve. THey use needle bearings make sure they arent real sloppy/worn.

If you get lifters just use the GM ones

You use a hydraulic roller cam right, not a flat tappet?

87 vette 81 big girl

Try adjusting the lifters again using my Poly-Lock adjustment and lockdown procedure. Do all 16 valves, not just a few.

Be consistant in your adjustment on each valve. Very Important !

Makes for a smooth and even running cylinder per cylinder basis in Your engine or any other.

Maximizing Cam Lift and Duration per each Camshaft lobe. And getting the most out of Your stock or aftermarket performance Camshaft profile !!

Dont be supprised if you find a couple of loose Poly-Locks and valves out of adjustment !

Let me know later how readjusting your valves has worked out for YOU !

twin540

I have not had to adjust them in over a year. If it does get loose i'll try the instructions above.

Calderone

Thanks !
Will follow instructions exactly ! ! !
Do i have to turn the engine ? i will take off the plugs for easy rotate it if thats the case

87 vette 81 big girl

Yes, you have to turn the crankshaft over to set the Each individual valve on all 8 cylinders of your engine.

You can use a 1/2 drive ratchet with a deepwell 5/8" socket to turn the balancer- crankshaft over.

I prefer using a REMOTE STATER BUMP SWITCH HOOKED TO THE "S" TERMINAL OF THE STARTER MOTOR SOLENOID (PURPLE 10 GUAGE WIRE) AND THE OTHER END CONNECTED TO THE BATTERY.

HOLD THE STARTER BUMP SWITCH IN ONE HAND AND HIT THE BUTTON RAPIDLY WITH THE PALM OF YOUR OTHER FREE HAND.

YOU WILL BE SUPPRISED TO HOW MUCH CONTROL YOU WILL HAVE TURNING THE CRANKSHAFT OVER IN SMALL 1/16 TURN OR LESS INCREMENTS.

IF YOU CHOOSE TO TURN THE CRANKSHAFT OVER BY HAND, PULL ALL 8 SPARK PLUGS OUT, WILL BE MUCH EASIER TO TURN THE BALANCER-CRANKSHAFT OVER WITH A 1/2 DRIVE RATCHET.

WITH SOME PRACTICE, YOU CAN SET ALL 16 VALVES- LIFTERS ON YOUR CORVETTE IN UNDER 1 Hour.

IN A RACE CAR, VALVE COVERS OFF, I CAN SET ALL 16 VALVES, HYDRAULIC, FLAT TAPPET SOLID, OR SOLID ROLLER CAMSHAFT IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES OR LESS USING A REMOTE STARTER BUMP SWITCH ON THE STARTER MOTOR.

I HAVE BEEN ADJUSTING VALVES ON A V-8 ENGINE SINCE I WAS 14, CLOSE TO 41 NOW. SO I HAVE HAD MANY YEARS OF PRACTICE AT IT.

TAKE AS LONG AS YOU NEED TO ADJUST ALL 16 VALVES CORRECTLY ON YOUR CORVETTE.

GETTING THE JOB DONE RIGHT AND WITH ACCURACY IS MOST IMPORTANT ! EVEN IF IT TAKES YOU HALF A DAY TO GET IT DONE.

DONT HAVE ANYONE DISTRACTING YOU !! MAKES FOR MISTAKES.

I WORK ALONE WHEN SETTING VALVES ON A V-8 ENGINE. KICK EVERYONE OUT THE GARAGE OR ANYWHERE NEARBY.

WANT NO DISTRACTIONS. LOL

BE SURE TO CHECK OUT THE BACK SECTION OF COMPETITION CAMS CATALOG !

MANY USEFULL TIPS AND PHOTOS IN THERE FOR YOU !!

BRIAN R.

Calderone

Thanks Brian !
i will download it !

87 vette 81 big girl

Your Welcome !!

Just help me answer my questions I will post later (soon), in C4 scan and tune.

Not as Savy with Computers and Programming as You and other are out there.

I am all engines and mechanical & electrical. LOL

I am interested in the Ostrich 2.0 for my 87 vert.

BR

cv67

Check that pushrod for straightness too and make sure your rocker stud is torqued before you pull the intake you may get lucky here.

Calderone

Just let me know , send me a PM if you need anything as well
thanks i greatly appreciate your help !

Calderone

Will do it , they are chrome moly one piece pushrods
the rocker stud is totally torqued but i will recheck just in case
thanks !

87 vette 81 big girl

This Gentleman is correct too.

Check for pushrod straightness and take time to make sure the rocker arms are torqued down correctly.

Calderone

thanks , will check
btw ...what's with this ?

You must make sure you are 180 degrees away from the Camshaft Lobe or ON THE BASE CIRCLE OF THE CAM. MANY DIFFERENT METHODS TO GET TO THE BASE CIRCLE OF THE CAM TO SET LIFTERS. I PREFER THE METHOD OUTLINED IN THE COMP CAMS CATALOUGE IN THE BACK COVER ON CAM INSTALLATION TIPS AND ADJUSTMENT

i have the catalog here but cant find out where is the base circle method
i hope my cam is not going flat !