gogmgo

Hi Roger2000 - thank you for that list. I live in Italy and have owned both US and EU spec Corvettes and Cadillacs. I much prefer the EU spec cars because they are tuned and come with all the features we expect in Europe but which are never offered or required in the US. It is also interesting that beyond the options/differences list there are also fundamental differences in the chassis. US-spec cars are designed to hit a wall and try to protect driver and passenger(s) in that event. And that is great except a very very small number of head on collisions occur that way. Most are off-set collisions and Euro Corvettes are designed to protect against those events. Furthermore, EU Corvettes come with explosives under the hood so that in the event that a Corvette hits a pedestrian the hood will explode forward and mitigate the damage done to the pedestrian by pushing him away from the windshield. Sadly in the US we try to do everything cheaply - whether it is build and sell cars or build bridges that collapse with one ship collision or houses made entirely of wood that easily go up in flames. I could go on but I guess that is the reason I decamped to Europe. And if one really enjoys driving there is nothing like Olde Europe - amazingly good and smooth roads and highways; high or no speed limits; excellent and attentive drivers and much much safer roads such that we Americans now kill ourselves at 3x the rate of Western Europeans!

JK 23112

Wow! This thread came out from being dead. I had almost forgotten about it - and it made me smile because we did move to Germany. My wife did get the job transfer over here nearly two years ago. We live about 30km outside of Frankfurt in a city called Wiesbaden. She had sold her 2019 Stingray (that she bought new) for five grand more than she paid for it. A dealer from MD sent a car carrier to our home with a cashier's check in hand in October of 2021. We intended to keep my 2017 Stingray since it had a manual transmission, but I sold it (in just four hours!) in May of 2022 about a month after we found out we were moving to Germany. I got two offers very quickly within hours, both of which were quite good. I accepted the higher of the two.

We also sold her 2016 Audi TT after getting a great offer on that one too - despite having almost 80,000 miles on it. My daily driver was a Honda Accord, which we handed down to my stepdaughter. We were allowed to take one vehicle with us - so we brought our 2021 Mazda SUV. It is more practical, has enough room and is equipped with all-wheel-drive. Fun as it would be to have a 'Vette over here, it just was not going to work. Additionally, we don't have a garage in which to keep it. For the first two months here, we had no parking spot in our temporary apartment and often had to park on the street at least 1/2 a kilometer away. After we found our "permanent" apartment where we live now, we have a covered parking space underneath the building that costs us 130 Euros every month!

I have seen a few C4, C5, C6 and C7 coupes over here that appear to have European specs (amber rear turn signals), but they're still pretty rare. I have yet to see a single C8 anywhere, although Chevrolet does obviously (as people on this forum have posted photos of them) sell an 'export' version for Europe and the Middle East. GM even builds a right-hand-drive C8 from the factory in Bowling Green, which they sell to customers in Australia, the UK, etc.

It's pretty cool how many different makes and models of cars you can buy in Europe that are not sold in the USA. Skoda, Dacia, Peugeot, Renault, MG, Seat and many other brands can be bought here. Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Volkswagen sell models here that are not even a pipe dream across the pond. Diesel engines and manual transmissions are quite common here too. Germans care a lot about fuel economy because gasoline is more than $7.50 a gallon here! Diesel fuel is somewhat less because they tax it at a lower amount + diesel-powered cars get more miles per gallon. Europeans also seem to enjoy manual transmissions much more than Americans.

You are quite correct that Germans are much better drivers and that the Autobahn is safer than US highways - by far. About 60 percent of the Autobahn is "unrestricted" - and triple-digit speeds are commonplace. You just have to be mindful that the speed limit will drop instantly (they don't give any warning at all) and there are speed cameras all over the place. You almost never see the polizei hiding in the bushes like you do with cops in the USA. Some parts of the Autobahn have electronic signage that enables the authorities to adjust the speed limit up or down based upon traffic conditions, weather, construction or other factors.

What is frustrating is enjoying the smooth, safe and efficient high-speed motoring of Germany and then coming back to the USA. I was home for two weeks last fall and had to drive 2,000 miles through six states while I was home. Yikes! US drivers are horrific when it comes to lane discipline and turn signal usage. We are slated to come back to the States permanently at the end of this year or early in 2025 and it will take some getting used to. Being able to experience the Autobahn is wonderful, even if I never was able to bring my Corvette over here with us. Doing 100+ mph legally is cool in a 'regular' car, but would really be great in a 'Vette!

P.S. With our US-spec Mazda, the FM radio tuner is programmed for North America and we only can receive half the frequencies (only those that end in .1, .3, .5, .7 and .9). Also, their broadcast format is different - meaning everything sounds "muddy" like an old AM radio station. Our navigation system will not work here, either. The Mazda has SiriusXM satellite radio, but they don't have any satellites over Europe. I still subscribe but stream their channels via their app on my cell phone and listen with Bluetooth while driving. With YouTube Premium, SiriusXM, podcasts and audiobooks, there's no desire to ever listen to "regular" radio anyway.

gogmgo

JK23112 - all very well observed and in my opinion accurate.

JK 23112

Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it.

It is a wonderful thing to experience the Autobahn if you're a person who is passionate about cars and driving. Germans view driving almost as an art form - not unlike fine horsemanship. Sadly, most people in the USA view driving as a chore, a necessary evil or just the most mundane way to get from Point A to Point B with as little skill or effort required. I had a German chap tell me that most Germans view the "unrestricted" speed on the Autobahn as their Second Amendment.

Of course, they still have their fair share of totalitarian social justice warriors (for lack of a better term) who are opposed to private vehicle ownership - seeking to place a 100 or 120 kph speed limit nationwide. Some of them want to tax or regulate private cars so heavily that most folks will be forced to use mass transit. ( The German mass transit system is darn good, but it will never totally supplant the need for private automobiles. )

Have an awesome day!!

gogmgo

I agree - sadly in the US as you point out we use our cars as an extension of our homes and offices - therefore we are talking; eating; smoking; putting on makeup; watching our screens etc etc etc.

JK 23112

There are some distracted drivers in Germany, but not nearly as many of them as in the USA. When you are on the Autobahn, it definitely requires a much higher level of alertness and situational awareness. When you are traveling at 90 to 100 mph, you're less likely to "doze off" than you are at 65 to 70 mph. There's also none of that camping in the left lane with the cruise control set kind of crap over here. Everybody is required to stay out of the left (passing) lane unless you're actually overtaking another vehicle.

One of the toughest nuts to crack is not being able to make a right turn on red here. It is prohibited UNLESS there is a sign or a green arrow indicating that you may turn on red. It's the opposite of the USA in that regard. Roundabouts are fantastic - once you get used to them. Stop signs are rare here too. Yield signs are everywhere and they make more sense - especially when nobody is around. No need to come to a full stop I don't think I have ever seen a four-way stop anywhere in Germany, either.



"It's not how fast you go that matters, but how well you go fast." -- German proverb

gogmgo

Oh yes I miss my roundabouts when I am stateside. And as you point there are few stop signs so no need for right turns on red but I can tell you that right turns on red are now very dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists because drivers in the States have gotten lazy and only look left - they do not look right anymore because they are only looking at car traffic and not at pedestrians or cyclists. As a cyclist I have already been hit by 2 cars in Florida because they just pull out - luckily I am prepared but I have ended up with two mangled bicycles - no bueno. The whole system in the US needs a total revamp but every state is different and no one cares anymore. Last year we had 43,000 vehicular deaths in the US. The equivalent number in Germany was 2,300. If you put it on a like-for-like comparison (population of 80 million in Germany and 320 million in the US - 4x = 9,200 deaths in Germany) we had 3.67x as many deaths as in Germany. That is ridiculous especially as we keep being told the bromide in the US that speed kills - we both know that what kills is carelessness and inattentive driving and not driving at 300 kph+. I own two EU-spec CTS-Vs (a v2 and a V3). The top speed on the 2013 is 303 kph and the top speed on the V3 is 321 kph. I have reached both in Germany. I always tell my friends in the US that own Porsches, Ferraris, BMW Ms, Lambos, Corvettes and V-series Cadillacs that I dont see the point of owning them - I tell them they are all poseurs. I suggest to them that they simply leave their Paganis et al in Europe and fly over when they really want to drive. As a tourist you can easily leave your US-plated car in Europe. But of course they look me as if I am mad - and go on driving around Miami Beach burning the clutch. I have a small apt in Miami and I drive a 30 year old Fiat 500L with a top speed of 40 mph!!!

JK 23112

The fastest I have ever driven in the USA was about 130 mph - and I'd rather not try it again. Once was in a huge Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight with a big V8 and super-tall rear end gears. 131 mph timed with a stopwatch between mile markers. Second time was in a V8 Ford Mustang GT. Both were when I was in my early twenties...........and yes, not very wise. Glad I only did it once in each car and never got the urge to do it again (despite owning three other Mustang GT coupes after that one).

Later on in life, I hit 110 mph in a short burst of speed in my 2017 Corvette Stingray. I had (and still have) a valid commercial driver's license, so I was more afraid of that than I was of the actual speed. I know that a C7 could easily hit 170 to 180, but it was not going to be done in mine.

Here in Germany, I had our 2021 Mazda SUV up to 170 kph (about 108 mph) one time. That was really as fast as I felt like going + the engine was a bit buzzy and the fuel mileage dropped like a rock. I typically go 150 to 160 kph on the unrestricted sections when traffic is light. It's still crucial to be safe, of course. I'd love to try driving a 'performance car' on the Autobahn sometime before we go back to the USA - maybe rent an Audi or BMW, etc.

I watched some videos of people going 300 kph on the Autobahn and that seemed a tad fast for my taste. No room for error at that velocity.

gogmgo

Watch this video of a V3 CTS-V going 320 kph in Germany but around the 1 minute mark he goes by a cluster of cars and trucks - at 320!!!. In other words his level of trust in other drivers is normal (ie high) for Germany but would be inconceivable in the US. Sadly we are a low-trust driving environment in the US while Germany and most of Europe is high-trust. So actually I feel very comfortable at speeds above 250 in Europe but very scared at 60 mph on I-95 in Florida which is why I drive my Fiat 500L. Also because no one takes me seriously they give me a wide berth and honk because they find my car cute - anything to keep attentive and away from me.

JK 23112

That was pretty crazy! I suppose that he really did have trust in other drivers to "do the RIGHT thing" - but that could have gotten pretty ugly in the area near the rest stop. When you have a mixture of big rigs, slow cars and really fast cars together, it becomes riskier to keep believing that other drivers will be expecting you to be coming up behind them that quickly.

Dude knew how to use his high-beam headlights appropriately, though. Kudos to him for that!!

JerryU

Reminded of when we had a business and factory in Germany, 1985-1990. I was on the Board. We had two Managing Directors, one Commercial the other Production. Worked great.

The compensation for the Commerical Director included a "special" Mercedes as he called them. This was well before Mercedes bought AMG. He would order a new mid-size Mercedes with their highest HP engine he said was a special order. He was proud he could drive anywhere in Germany faster than taking a plane. He proved it when I drove with him to visit customers etc.

Had to tell you when he was going 250 k/h (155 mph.) He had no issue with a Ferrari passing and would tell you one was coming as he saw flashing headlights in his rear-view mirror. But he hated when someone in a hopped-up VW etc passed him.

The issue I had (in addition to driving with him at night because he was driving well past his headlights) was the delta speed. Recall we were on a 2 lane per side Autobahn and a car in the right lane was passing a Truck perhaps at 80 mph. He had to slam on his brakes. I asked how people like that survive. He said, "They don't last long!" Appeared they were willing to accept Dawin, only the strongest survived. We appear to operate in a similar attitude with distracted driving using cell phones, only the smartest folks survive.

We're starting to use roundabouts here. Folks get all confused. Don't recall as many in German as the UK. That was even tougher as you drove on the different side of the road. Never had an issue when there was traffic you could follow but when there was none, got confusing!

JK 23112

That is a great question.

All new EU-spec cars have amber rear blinkers (unlike the USA where either red or amber can be used) - which is much more visible at night and more easily distinguished from brake lights. They also have a single red rear-facing fog light that illuminates when you turn on the front fog lights - if your car is so equipped. Lots of EU-spec vehicles have an extra amber 'side flasher' on or near the front fenders. It's easier to tell when somebody is changing lanes and they're not totally in front of you - or you are not far enough ahead of them to see their front turn signal. Many cars also have the blinkers on the side-view mirror housing too. Totally a wonderful idea that is becoming very popular in the USA too.

Headlight washers are a cool feature and I bet they'd be popular in the USA - where we certainly get our fair share of inclement weather.

JK 23112

Yeah, overdriving your headlights can be a big issue. You can't just run the high beams, though, as it will blind people coming in the opposite direction. Germans seem to be better about that than folks in the USA - you almost never have to "flash" folks who leave their bright lights on too long over here.

It is kind of nuts when somebody juts over to the left lane to pass a truck - and you have so throw out the anchor to slow down in time. Not sure if it is inattention, lack of situational awareness or being inconsiderate; but it's a bigger problem than it should be............but not nearly as bad as in the USA.

As more and more "non-German" people move to Germany, it takes a bit of time for some of them to become acclimated to the driving etiquette that is necessary here. At least you don't see the Trabants on the Autobahn anymore.

gogmgo

I just came back from driving 5.000 km from Italy through southern France and into Spain and around Spain. I found that Spanish drivers were as disciplined as German drivers and their highway and road network was the best I have ever driven. Yet again, it just confirms to me that Western Europe is a high-trust driving environment whereas ours, sadly, is low trust. Ill give you an example. If I am driving on a main road in any European country and I intend to turn right into a smaller road I will activate my right turn signal to indicate to drivers behind me that I am turning right; to indicate to drivers in front that I am turning right and to indicate to any pedestrians and cyclists that I am also turning right and they can take appropriate action. If at that intersection there is a car that is turning left into the main road that I am still on he/she will also indicate with their turn signal that they are turning into my traffic lane and you know what they will cut me off and move into the left lane. And why? Because they will have seen my right turn signal so they will accept and trust that I am turning left and therefore they feel free to also turn left and cut off my direction of travel because I had my indicator on. This is how European roads are safer and run much more fluidly. In the US because turn signals are used sporadically they are rightly not trusted. So even if I had turned on my right turn signal the car moving out from the side road would not move because he does not trust my indicator and this kind of heistant behavior multiplied over millions of driving interactions leads to hesitation and frustrated drivers. US driving is a bizarre mix of hesitation and timidity combined with anger.

gogmgo

Traffic roundabouts are one of the greatest life savers in the world. Slowly slowly they are being deployed in the US but then we don't teach US drivers how to use them properly and if they are not used properly they dont work as intended and then it just validates the incorrect US perception that they dont work and we dont need them.

gogmgo

Hi JK23112 - You are correct but the facts don't lie. You are much more likely to be seriously hurt or killed driving in the US than in Germany. Firstly, Europeans take much better care of their cars and replace them much more frequently than do Americans. Also in Europe cars have to get their emissions and road worthiness tested every year - something that some US states do not require anymore - Florida I am looking at you. And many Americans drive cars that are not roadworthy and with no insurance - they simply do not care or cannot afford to pay since they ALL NEED THEIR CARS for work. Europeans switch from summer tires to winter tires by law and the tire stores are jam packed during that switch over period. Can you imagine in the US that being a requirement? No we take the cheap route and just buy all season tires - in any event at 70 mph we don't care. But at 170 mph we would care and in Germany they make sure their tires are in top condition or they do not drive at 250 kph+. How often do you see shredded tires on the road in Germany? I see if all the time on I-95 in Florida along with constant broken down cars on the shoulder. That too just adds to the lack of fluidity in US driving networks. I am 62 years old and have been driving at speeds above 200 kph for the past 37 years and have found that keeping focused is the key to safe driving - not the speed. And when I start to feel drowsy I just pull over in a rest stop and catch a few winks.