Tusc

Just for fun and some random ramblings. I am "between Corvettes" right now after the coupe was wrecked and the Z06 build has stagnated. @Markolc1981 is heading for a cruise ship in a few days and out of humor I laughingly said something like "I'll be glad to heat cycle it and make sure the oil gets rotated" and somehow now I actually have the keys to a baller 99 FRC parked out front for the next week or so.

If I didn't work so many hours I have it in my mind to do the Flat Stanley thing and just send pictures of the car in random locations for fun. Maybe with a few young women draped over it. Who knows?

Instead I'll go with this thread and just draw some comparison impressions and observations from my experience owning C5s since 2000.

Basics:
99 FRC blk/blk, C6Z air filter/bridge, stock h/c, LG long tubes, titaniums, Z51 suspension with B8 Bilsteins, Z wheels, Conti tires, A4 seats, MGW with unknown tall stick, Hawk HPS 5.0 pads (shout out to @Kubs because we trust the product), LUK / C6Z clutch and FW

My last one was a 99 coupe blk/blk, ram air, stock h/c w/ pac1218, SW shorties, borla S and later titaniums, Z06 leafs and bars with Bilsteins, Z wheels, Bridgestones, former A4s but ended life with Sport seats, MANY different shifters over time, Z26 Ceramics, Fidanza light weight with McLeod RST and adj master.


Let the observations commence:
- The side and rear windows appear limo tinted from outside but give a very clear view. My Z has lighter tints but I am highly tempted to go darker now. These have proven especially and surprisingly functional at night.

- Mark's MGW is very very tight. Even with the tall **** it is hard to be sure you're going into the right gear without thinking. I am used to the large round gripper **** and controlling the shift from on top. This C6 looking **** with thumb relief is more like a vertical stick so that may play a part in my disconnect. There is also a natural lay of the hand which is different here. His A4s are installed without spacers or angle and so sit flat to the car and low. This combined with the taller handle makes the shifter feel like it sits immensely higher than it does.

- Z51 suspension is a really awesome driving suspension. I have driven base suspension models - even when new - and felt they were frighteningly soft and non performance suspensions. They were dogs. My coupe had run coilovers (highly, highly suggested) and later went back to the Z06 / bilstein combo it had when I bought it. THAT suspension was pretty rough for regular street driving and going to it from the coilovers was a disappointment. Needlessly harsh. The Z51/B8 combo immediately presented itself to me as firm but forgiving for street driving. Very comfortable and at the same time the car feels tight and sorted. I have not done any driving heroics with the car as it is not mine, I don't know it well yet, and it has been raining. But I am impressed. Z51 is a good option.

- Conti tires. I don't know which model but having driven in the wet in someone else's baby I can say that they are entirely safe and not once have they let loose or caused me anxiety in the wet.

- Stereo - Mark, if I had a spare set of speakers I would install it and not tell you! He removed the rears and I believe the Bose so the car has only unknown door speakers from the sound of it. All in the name of weight savings, because race car. Yet it has a really awesome Pioneer double din head unit in it. I think the LS can lug around ten pounds of speakers without sputtering.

- Sound / Noise. My coupe was sound deadened in the doors and in the tub, as well as externally in the rear wheel wells. I am not used to road noise from the tires or the back cavity. The FRC has a small cavity. The tires themselves are silent, good tread design. So it is normal road noise unmuffled finding its way into the cabin. I don't recommend sound deadening because that WOULD be a huge weight gain to the car which is intended for track day progression. This is simply an observation going from one car to another. It makes me wonder how effective a custom fabricated separator panel might be or not be at reducing trunk/wheel noise.

- Brakes. From 2015 to 2021 I ran StopTech street/track pads on centric high carbon cryo rotors and while they painted the wheels black they absolutely did not fade in my aggressive street use with repeated high speed emergency stops and weekend rips. I make no suggestion that they would be perfect for a track setting, but for the street the combination was intensely good. Like...real good!!! I tried Z26 ceramic pads on a fresh set of carbon cryo rotors and I cannot say enough how dangerous I consider these pads. When or if you need to command a full force stop these will only reach "80%" in my mind of the clamping force of the prior pads at any time. So they will slow you down..... only "kinda"..... and slowly as the car feels like it is slipping past them without any control. Likewise, aggressive driving put them past heat threshold rapidly. I say all this for history. Driving Mark's car I believe he has a set of Hawk HPS 5.0 pads and he'll correct me if I'm wrong. I had avoided these based on comments of noise. Driving the car the whisper they provide is so low as to be only a hint. And in a non sound insulated car. Also in the wet. I now have zero restrictions in my mind about using this pad due to noise. None whatsoever. I'd be curious how much carbon they toss from the rotors over time. I have not heated them up yet but in this case when I get a dry sunny day I do intend to cycle them in a large parking lot nearby to see how they compare. I wager they will make me smile.

- Corbeau A4s - I love them. I have them in the Z06 waiting for me after swapping them out of the coupe. For the money, and for a street car, they are a great upgrade from factory C5 seats. Bar none. I am learning that the time invested in shimming them at time of install does have a recognized impact on personal comfort and fitment. Mark is taller than me and lanky. I'm 5'10 and a brick. I installed my A4s with some spacers both on the frame and at the mounting points in the front to raise the front perhaps 1/2 to 3/4" overall. The rears are unmodified. This slight rake changes the actual angles that this fixed mechanical seat angles can reach and so the same setting on his seats is very different from mine. No impact to driving or fitment at all, just something to be picky about when you install them for yourself. I wager they fit Mark perfectly. Though I also feel like I am sitting deeper in the car and have even tilted the wheel down farther than I ever have.

- Lights - the 4eyeC5 setup is a banger. I paid a high premium to get the very first batch of George's original Low-Rise headlights through RadioFlyer / Sharp Light Innovations and they are the same product. 4eye did a knock off of the bracket and sold just that. Then KD hit the market with his. Needless to say, returning to bright projector headlights is very welcome in the otherwise dim C5. Having the LED halo tail lights is also welcome as I consider it a key safety factor in owning a C5. Low to the ground... often dark.... and sometimes hard to dumb drivers to gauge distance on apparently, I have been in three separate rear-end accidents ... two of which were significant in terms of injury... and they only occurred at periods where I did NOT have my LED HALOs installed. And so, probably for foolish reasons I feel better having the annoyingly bright LEDs out back to make the idiots take note and slow down or stay away.

I'm sure more observations will come in time. For now, I am just happy as a clam to cruise in comfort and have that highway 5th gear back in my hand.

Vetteman Jack

Nice comparison between the cars.

Elektro

Damn, I guess I like soft suspensions and feeling the car moving around. Especially with the fox shocks. z51 sounds like a good middle ground.

I also like my sony es speakers and subwoofer. FWIW, it is lighter than the original equipment especially if you jettison the old 7 lbs cd player and 5 lbs radio. A car this small really only needs two speakers 😘 I've been considering some of the vette nutts damping material for years now.

Some difference in opinion with the seats. I also have the A4, I was lukewarm when I first put them in and have tried all different spacers and shims etc and now I hate them. I'm just too tall. Don't want a race bucket just for track days. Looking at Tillet. I also have my original sport seats in near new condition but something in the track is loose. Iirc the material was super slippery too. Still, I'm tempted to try fixing it and putting them back in haha.

I do not like hawk pads. I melted my first set of HP+ (that kns had recommended) and they also squealed like a pig. Recently tried ht10 that are so soft the pedal is halfway to the floor before the tires slip. They make a more typical race pad moaning/whirring which is less offensive the squealing. And nearly used up after one weekend! I have heard good things about the DTC pads that eat your wheels fwiw. I'm trying ferodo next since my beloved raybestos seem to be on back order.

With my old Miata I never even THOUGHT about the brakes, and while I could "smell" them sometimes on Supra, they never caused any issue (IATs would spoil the fun first) Must be Corvette's achilles heel.

On the street idk I just use whatever, dba or ceramic pad whatever is the cheapest option.

Markolc1981

The A4s do have about as many spacers as I could safely add to the front bolts (I believe 8 washers). I've gotten used to the feel and it's very comfortable even on long drives.

As far as the stereo goes, I prefer my sound stage in front of me. I take my time to EQ and Time Align the sound stage so that the vocals sound like it comes from directly in front of me. It lets me listen to music at louder volumes for longer periods of time without any fatiguing. With that being said, I did not Eq these since disconnecting the battery last time. It's annoying that these settings aren't saved in the radio. This started years ago in my daily drivers, and since then I always Fade out the rears in any car that I'm driving for a while. The speakers in the door are CT Sounds components. They have good bass, but terrible mids and shrilly highs. They came with the car, but I do not care enough to actually replace them. The reason for pulling the rear speakers out entirely was because the factory radio wiring has been removed by the PO, so it made little sense to keep them in there when the wiring went no-where when I removed the trunk amps. Weight savings is just the comical narrative I tell others when I remove these things. If I truly cared about it, I'd remove the 40lbs of sound deadening and Dyna-Mat all throughout the car that was added by the PO. Maybe one day if this car transitions to mostly track and little street, but till then I have more pressing mods and maintenance to perform.

Glad you're enjoying the car!

Tusc

Oh it DOES have sound deadening? Ah, I guess you had mentioned that yes. It sounds very different from the coupe.

I have fully adapted to the shifter/handle. What seems to be an issue is alignment. 2nd is mildly hard to reach. 5th is repeatedly difficult to reach and I go slow even letting the clutch out to be sure. Tonight or tomorrow I may try to play with the linkage and mounting bolts a bit for some test and tune.

Everything else is in top shape. No rain leaks. Seats are comfy. Great mid range response in gears, way better than my coupe. But oddly not a lot of top end vs the coupe. Only had one backfire on decel, from normal rpms. Your self taught tune is really right on. I would never guess it was someone's first effort at all. Everything on the car is solid so far as I can tell.

Johnny Hardcore

Hey Brett, nice write up comparison. I'm headed to Uganda on Tuesday to go gorilla trekking. I'll be out of town for 10 days. I'll drop my coupe off tomorrow for one of your reviews.

Tusc

Bring it on by. I'll give it back with a full tank and a certificate of authenticity for the review.

Maybe I need a Dragy now to really compare them all.

Johnny Hardcore

Great idea! I see a monetized YouTube channel in your near future!

Tusc

Nah. I want to use good music and not have to pay for it. Non monetized only. Lol

Markolc1981

Yeah there's a thick silver matting of some kind all throughout the tub and waterfall. My guess it was done during the stereo install. The stereo install was first rate I must say, must have been some pros that did it because they got all the details right.

Be my guest with the shifter, I've played around with it a bit and that's the best I've ever got it. Certainly you have the experience and feel to pick up on it. I'd be curious to see if you can dial it in a bit better.

I've mostly tuned out the decel pops, but there's still more work to do in the low kPa range. With the stock tune you just couldn't let the car decelerate in gear without 3-4 pops. I'm not sweating it too much given that I have an intake and cam going in soon and will be back at at square one with tuning. It's funny you mention the lack of power up at the top of the range, I certainly feel it also, but did not have anything to compare it to. Since I put in the stiffer springs, I raised the RPM limiter to LS6 standard of 6600 RPM, but you really feel the power drop off after 6k, it's just not mean to go there in stock trim. Part of me wonders if there's too much pre-load on the lifters, but because it's all stock I just torqued the rockers down to spec after the spring swap. On the dyno sheet the curve rolls over at about 5400, which I guess on a '99 LS1 stock cam and intake manifold is about right. The new cam and intake manifold should really wake it up 3500-6k RPM.

vette4fl

What do you have for a intake filter box?

Markolc1981

C6Z intake

Tusc

LS7 style with blade maf. Pretty cool that it installs directly other than the retune for the sensor.

Tusc

Took the car to work today and tried to blow off some pollen via the highway. It remains wicked solid. A 15.0 gallon fill proved commuting mpg of 18.33 after 275 miles. The gauge seems to be working which is great.

Z51. Still fully confident in it. At high force, ie 90 mph swerve and recover to avoid erratic driver puffing weed out his window while weaving through traffic and cutting through me, I do feel a difference when putting the suspension through mild compression. I have not driven the car hard or really tested it otherwise and that is due to the shifter. I worked both days last weekend and am in again this Saturday. But if I can get the time I sorely want to do my best at trying to figure out the alignment as I have actually been causing shoulder pain getting into 1-2 and 5-6. I have been using 3rd unintentionally quite a bit. Therefore no aggressive shifts or clutch use, I've been excessively ginger.

The front tires.... I should look.... 295? They rub but only barely and only at lock. Entirely fine. I've run square 285s before for long periods. Great grip. Heavy wheel. I had adapted to the 265s on the coupe which did yield a light wheel.

vette4fl

You have a terrific writing style. You could make a great auto mag writer.

Tusc

Just don't let me do any more project cars, as they seem to take 4 years when left in my hands. Too much the perfectionist when I care about the car. In the past this sort of thing goes much quicker when I have less investment in the condition of the car.

Tusc

Just no time to get to the shifter. So I am living with it on this extended test drive period.

I drove the car today instead of the Ram. Observations, hmmm....

I am really feeling how the Corbeaus have just the slightest angle to the left due to their rails and how they are installed. It is a known issue which I never paid attention to because it really means nil. But it got me pondering how to fix this with my own Z06 when I get back to working on it.

The headliner in the 99 is.... AMAZING. I have spent enough time working and sitting in my 03 Z06 to tell you that having a spare inch or two above your head is a great thing. I wonder how much, if any, of the space is due to variances of A4 seat installs. But I know the headliner itself is normal thickness whereas mine has an additional 1 to 1.5" of honeycomb impact absorption material. As one who has been head injured. TWICE. In C5s from being hit by other people....you think I'd want the padding, but even sitting in my Z06 without a hat on my skull is less than one finger from the roof and not comfortable.

The volume is right on. Maybe Titaniums are not perfect for me, but having the fair quietude with the lightly tuned sound is pretty pleasing. I miss and at the same time do NOT miss the howl of the Borla S behind headers and x-pipe. I still say it sounds "right" for the car. But I also remember just not hearing anything and probably damaging my ears a bit.

I still dig the brakes. There might be a touch of bleeding needed to tighten up the pedal but the little travel which exists yields into affirmative brake engagement. I have not rough housed the car to really test it in the hills or whatnot, but that restriction remains from lack of confidence in shifting it.

I truly swear I would get to that and even play with the anti-venom down to zero and up to 4 just to see how it affects this particular car, but I worked 11 days straight, then went in on the holiday weekend twice, and then 1am, 2am and 1am nights spent working from home so far. I believe I am nearing the end of the big projects for now so there is hope for the future!

USAZR1

Thanks for the thread, Brett. Always good to read other takes on these subjects. Your thoughts on the MGW shifter mirrors mine as I was never really fond of the one, in my Z06. As crazy as it may sound, I really prefer the oem C5 shifter, in my Vert.

Tusc

Here's the thing. The setup in his car is tearing my rotator cuff. But I absolutely swear by my OLDER MGW on my tmod tub and love it.