webdzynes

Seems to be a lot of conflicting data on here regarding this. I've thought about a Garmin but would prefer my laptop if there are some really good software packages to choose from. However, the NAV is integrated which I also like. How do the software packages compare? Anyone have good working familiarity with all three?

DigitalGriffin

Nav systems for laptops don't quite work as well because they don't factor in the speed you are traveling. This has to be compensated for because GPS data has a limited accuracy. (About size of football field.)

jimman

I have the Garmin 2610 and love it. Garmin has a new portable called the Quest and a addon for Laptop called the GPS 18. Not sure on the Garmin GPS 18 but seen an off brand unit that sucked. The big difference is in the Map software. With the exception of the 2610 they all use Map Source City Select where the 2610 uses the City Navigator. I asked Garmin the difference because they appeared to be the same. Their response was in the Algorithms used in plotting routes, the Navigator is better than the City Select. I like the idea of a portable for a couple of reasons, one can go with you via Rent-a-cars and two obsolescence. I raised that obsolescence thing and got jumped all over a while back on the forum. The Garmin units have went through 3 generations in less than 4 years and the older one you can't give away. This year alone there have been nearly 700 upgrades to the Mapware all do to, not map data but how it processes that data. Not sure how one can keep up with the fixed car units. They say that the Nav has a CD drive for it but The Map Source Data needs two CD's to handle all all that data. This weekend I loaded 3/4 of the country in a 1 gig CF memory for the 2610 but it took the computer nearly two hours to process and up load that info. Computer is a 2.8 gig CPU.

Jay_Davis

A good GPS receiver can be a lot more accurate than that, of course they cost more.

docrings1

I've tried the laptop thing and it is unwieldy in the confines of a car... battery life suffers on long trips requiring invertors, wires, etc. Not a lot of fun, but useful information --- the location can get a bit out of whack on tight city streets (gets confused where you are, and which street you actually or on...)
The built-in NAV is elegant, simpler to operate, with voice command through the car stereo system.
Downside to car NAV is lockout while moving, less street details in rural/smaller cities, new streets not on older cars (unless you fork over the $$$)

I would love to try on of the smaller Garmin or pocket PC versions, though... they sound like just the ticket... just smaller screens and no integrated voice-overs -- but more data/street detail for smaller cities.

jimman

http://www.garmin.com/mobile/

RF LINKUP

I HAVE FOUND THE NAV TO BE VERY GOOD AND ACCURATE, THE ALGORYTHM USED KEEP THE ICON ON THE ROAD, NOT LIKE SOME OF THE SYSTEMS OUT THERE, I USE STREET ATLAS IN MY SATELLITE TRUCKS, BUT I BELIEVE THIS UNIT IS MORE FRIENDLY, ALSO BEING BUILT IN LOOKS A LOT BETTER THAN A LAPTOP LAYING IN THE OTHER SEAT. NEW DVD'S WILL BECOME AVAILABLE TO KEEP UP WITH EVER CHANGING INFO, THIS SYSTEM GETS AN "A" FROM ME

sorka

You are way off base. First off, positional accuracy is far better than 300 yards. Since Clinton released the artificial error induction accuracy is easily within 30 feet for any 12 channel receiver. Some receivers are far more accurate and can be +- 6 feet(usually much more expensive marine GPS units). This is all without DGPS correction.

Secondly speed accuracy has always been much more accurate than location. Less than 0.1 MPH as speed is calculated based on delta in current position from one moment to the next. If the GPS is off by 6 feet its like lkely that a second later it will still be off by the same 6 feet in the same direction.

Wolfbane

I have a Garmin in my Trans Am and Nav in my C6. They are about equal in accuracy. I beleive this is due more to the database rather than the accuracy of the GPS. The built in nav however is my preference. It is easier to program and the voice control is kinda handy.

Hope this helps,

IwishIhadAvette

microsoft makes streets and trips combined with a gps reciever for about $90-$130 depending where you shop. when i got it it was 130, but now if you search it is cheaper. I dont get lost anymore. It isnt quite as good as high end units, but it is very very cheap relativly, and I have the added benifit that I can take it into starbucks and brows the web (I have wireless laptop). If you have a laptop all it can cost to try is about $100 and a gig of memory. Even if you dont like it best, someone in your family will find it usefull in a non nav vehicle. Be sure to buy a cheap inverter (Target). Its cheap enough to try without major consiquence and it may save you $1400 bucks if you like it.

webdzynes

That sounds like solid advice! Thanks!

2 Ag R8Cs

First of all with WAAS-enabled GPS systems it is possible where WAAS is available to experience accuracy of under three meters for the majority of tracking time. So the statement of football field accuracy only applies to old GPS technology, make sure whatever system you buy is WAAS-enabled.
If you are going for a lap top GPS system then Delorme is the best computer map system there is.
http://www.delorme.com/consumer.htm
I have been using Delorme on my laptop since 1998 and found it to be very reliable and accurate. With the Delorme you can issue spoken commands to your laptop while tracking with Earthmate GPS and receive voice prompts back from the laptop. The two problems I had with the laptop were; number one the passenger had to sit with a laptop on their lap for the trip. So I usually didn’t keep it on all the time. To spare the passenger the discomfort of sitting with a laptop on their lap I kept the computer behind me and just listened to the voice prompts. If I needed more information I would have to retrieve the computer from the back and put it on the passenger seat. Problem two with the laptop on the passenger seat you need to take your eyes off the road and turn your head to see the map. If the sun was shining brightly it was hard to see the map. I have an older laptop so maybey the newer laptops may not have the problem with the screen being washed out in bright sunlight. Before you buy a computer GPS take your laptop outside in bright sunlight and see if the screen gets washed out. A little over a month ago I decided to go with a more compact system. I was worried about the small screen, but it zooms in and out automatically when you approach a turn.
The choice came down to Garmin or Magellan. I found a forum devoted to GPS devices.
http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/t...TOPIC_ID=11411
I searched the threads, and based on what I read the Garmin is clearly the winner with the best features. The two best portable Garmin models are the 2610 and the 2620. The 2610 is the better choice because it uses a memory card to store the maps while the 2620 uses a mini hard drive to store the maps. The memory cards are indestructible but the mini hard drive may be damaged if the unit falls off the dash. The 2610 out of the box doesn’t have a large enough memory card to hold every street in the USA so you must pick the area you will be traveling to and download the maps to that are from your computer. Or you can order the 2 gig memory card to replace the one that came with it and you will have the same capacity of the 2620 and will have every street, gas station, restaurant, bank ATM, hospital etc in the USA. Hawaii included. If you travel to Europe or any other continental land mass in the world you can buy a map for that country.
I recommend that you get optional 2 Gig card. I found that newegg.com had the best prices.
http://www.newegg.com/app/SearchProd...bmit=Go&DEPA=0

Here is what I paid, I just noticed the price is much higher since 8/30/04. Maybe you can mention a friend bought one at the lower price and see if they will meet it.

Item List

GPSRECEIVE|GARMIN STREETPILOT 2610 (Qty=1,Price=$719.99)
COMPACT FLASH 2GB|SANDISK RETAIL (Qty=1,Price=$239.00)

Subtotal:$958.99
TAX:$.00
Shipping and Handling Charge**:$9.00
Total:$967.99

EHS

I've tried all three, including a brand new Garmin 96C portable a few days ago.

The convenience of the in-car system is the best. The laptop is cumbersome -- where do you put it and mount it? The handheld Garmin is nice, but still "all over the place." Remember all the cables, or replacing batteries while driving. So, get the integrated system.

On the fellow above about inaccurate speed output and position accuracy to a football field -- even the basic DeLorme Earthmate from 1998 gives you speed accuracy to within +/- 1 mph. I know, I've used it, and I was using it when my wife was clocked (and got a ticket for 69 mph in a 55). Guess what the Delorme was reading - 69 mph.

Position accuracy? With the Garmin handheld, down to the width of a small taxiway at an airport -- easily. The football field business is wrong. And as mentioned above, with WAAS technology (which my $600 color Garmin handheld has), I can put the airplane right down on the runway centerline (which is about a foot wide), were I to be looking at the GPS instead of outside.

2 Ag R8Cs

You miss read my post; the football field statement I made was to refute the statement made in post #2 of this thread. The WAAS-enabled GPS is accurate to less than 3 meters, the old Delorme system I started with in 1998 was probably accurate to about 30 to 100 feet, most of the time it was less than 30 feet off. The Garmin 2610 does not use batteries, it plugs into the cigarette lighter socket. Garmin also makes a 2650 and 2660 unit that uses dead reckoning that keeps track of your position when you lose satellite reception (see link for explanation of dead reckoning) , the down side is it can’t be moved from car to car.

PS the speed has always been dead on with GPS, the error factor is in calculating location. I can turn WAAS on or off with my 2610, with WAAS turned on I am usually within 3 or 4 feet of the map position

DigitalGriffin

I realize that GPS are more accurate since Clinton released the restrictions on GPS. But in my experience, the GPS units built into PCMCIA cards are typically limited to this accuracy. (Especially with older models.) Mine has been off by ~200 feet every once and a while. So YRMV I guess. I have yet to see a PCMCIA card with DGPS, but there was one, I would be all over it.

BTW: A football field is 100 yards/300 Feet. Not 300 Yards/900 Feet.

2 Ag R8Cs

In order to benefit from the restrictions lifted by Clinton the GPS receiver needs to be WAAS-enabled. I copied this from the Delorme site, it explains WAAS. I wonder if the GM unit is WAAS-enabled
======================================

What is WAAS?
WAAS stands for Wide Area Augmentation System and is a system of satellites and ground stations that provide GPS signal corrections. As is true of the GPS satellites, there is no extra charge or equipment required to take advantage of WAAS. Because the new Earthmate USB GPS is WAAS-enabled, it is possible where WAAS is available to experience accuracy of under three meters for the majority of tracking time.

How WAAS Works
The system consists of roughly 25 ground reference stations positioned across the United States. These ground stations monitor GPS satellite data.

Two master stations are located on each coast and these collect data from the reference stations and create a GPS correction message. This correction takes into account GPS satellite orbits, clock drift, and signal delays, typically caused by atmospheric conditions. The corrected differential message is broadcast through one of two geo-stationery satellites or satellites with a fixed equatorial position.

Any WAAS-enabled GPS, such as the Earthmate USB GPS, is able to read this signal and benefit from the enhanced accuracy.

WAAS Performance Considerations
As is true for all GPS usage, the location and environment of the user will cause variability in WAAS performance. For instance, the position of the satellites over the equator make it difficult to receive the signals when mountains or trees obstruct a clear view of the horizon. Therefore, it is safe to say that WAAS provides the best performance in open-area situations. Unlike DGPS (differential GPS), WAAS does not require additional receiving equipment.

The new Earthmate USB GPS is among the most cost-efficient ways to realize the benefits of WAAS.

EHS

Actually I was agreeing with you, I thought. I was also refering to post #2 above.

2 Ag R8Cs

jimman

Two things of interest with WAAS. I called Garmins Tech support when WAAS became availabe for their model 2610 via download from their site. I just wanted to learn about it. There response was Not to use it for driving do to the Map software is not that accurate and did not have GPS technology when created. Not sure if I agree totally with that. Second I found out via tech support if you are in an area where WAAS is not available your unit will have a difficult time loacating Satellites if at all. I did notice when in Phoenix the unit kept looking for Satellites till I shut off the WAAS feature and then within seconds was locked in. Therefore I doubt if the car units will have WAAS

EHS

Here's the link to Garmin, which explains their take on WAAS:

http://www.garmin.com/aboutGPS/waas.html

Basically, since SA (the degradation of signal) is not in use right now, GPS is accurate to within about 50 feet -- that's about 3 car lengths, and as long as you don't use it to try and get into a tight parking spot, you should be OK finding the Exxon station.

GPS naviation uses the satellite signals sent to your receiver. With those signals, the receiver now knows where it is within 50 feet, give or take. At the same time, a ground station also receives the same signal. But, because the ground station knows where it is located to the inch (they measure that stuff with your tax dollars when they build one of those stations with your tax dollars), it compares where it thinks it is based on the signal (which could put it off by as much as those 50 feet), does the math, and sends a correction signal out, --- which your WAAS enabled GPS naviation system also receives and makes use of.

In other words, let's say you get a signal from the satellite that puts you 50 feet west of that Exxon gas pump on your navigation system map. Meanhwile, the WAAS ground sation has sent out a signal that says, "hey, right now we're getting info from the sattelite that is wrong by 50 feet to the west -- move that cursor to the east 50 feet." There you go. While not important to you as a driver -- just don't hit the pumps, it's very important to the pilot who's landing you in that fog and rain -- he doesn't want to be 50 feet to the left of the runway centerline. Well, I guess, neither do you.

Here's the problem with the ground station business. It's like a radio, if you're not near it, or the hill is in the way, you won't get WAAS corrections so well. But, your receiver will still be looking for it, eating up the juice in your batteries (if you use one of those).

So, for most folks, just keep it turned off -- you'll still be amazed at how you can drive down the road, watching your naviation system, while paying absolutely no attention to the road and other traffic at all.

Cheers!