3LZR21U

I'm interested in alternatives to the E-Ray. Lexus LC500 is not AWD (and is down on power). GT63 AMG is not a convertible. 911 4 (any of the 9999 variants thereof) does not have much in the way of cargo space in a cabriolet. Thus why I am not considering these alternatives.

I'm not interested in an AMG SL55 or the M8/M850i. That said, experience with these is also welcome, as they are quite similar apart from the powertrain. I am also specifically interested in a convertible. Any experience in driving/owning a C8 of any variant is also helpful--especially an HTC. I'd love to hear thoughts/experiences on these two vehicles, including comfort, noise, features, etc.

Thanks!

Nosferatu

650S Spyder

3LZR21U

I have no intention of considering any others. I do not wish for the cost & ownership cost of things like a McLaren/Lambo/Ferrari. Nor do I have any intention of buying new at MSRP for the M8 Competition or the AMG SL 63.

Moving on.

Nosferatu

You will lose more money buying a German car than a used exotic.

cfl70

New sl 63 is hot 100%

3LZR21U

Spending ~75k on a 4 year old car > spending 200k on an exotic that I don't even have a dealership within 3 hours of me--and probably has been beat to hell (as most have been in the segment/price).

One big advantage of the M8/S63 looks is that people don't buy them to be flashy racers. So there are far less of them that have been flogged than Huracans, 650s, etc.

But again, please keep on topic. I don't care for any exotic--used or otherwise. I'm cross-shopping AWD convertible grand-touring cars. Even a Bentley Continental would have been a more logical suggestion--and still an irrational brand to own.

FAUEE

Have an X5 M50i, the non M version of the V8 (they're really quite similar though). It's MASSIVELY underrated in power. The N63 is rated 520hp, but they routinely make 520 wheel HP on dyno. The M version is rated for 600hp ish, but gets an extra 500rpm.and they tune it to be a more rev happy motor, making more power up top than down low.
They don't make enough sound but do make enough thrust.

3LZR21U

Good info. IDGAF about sound--to me everything expended that isn't thrust is wasted energy.

How's the ownership cost? That's the biggest concern I have. Everyone talks about the DCT in the C8 being a "i'm not going to own it without being under warranty" situation. I'm curious about the SL63 and the M8 WRT long term costs.

24RiptideBlue

Everything you mentioned is high end and I wouldn’t own any of them except the Lexus, without a warranty. At least for the first few years of ownership as you don’t want to buy new…. I often see tempting M850 and SL 63 or 65 at secondary dealers and I learned my lesson the hard way after getting burned on an M550i. The shop who helped with that car said if a high end used car is at a secondary dealer it’s usually for a reason…

My daily is a C43 AMG coupe and I love it. It’s crazy fast 0-60 4.1 seconds. AWD and I love it. I had a C63 and traded “down” to the 43 for the AWD and the ability to put the power down. I bought it used from a Mercedes dealer and got a two year warranty. I let the warranty lapse because I don’t put enough miles on it to justify the cost and after two years I’m confident it’s not a problem child car…. And it comes in a Convertible….

I can’t recommend a car more. I have owned M3’s, 911’s, S and RS Audi… and my C8 coupe. Still love the C43…. And it’s an AMG and drives like one but is thousands less than an 850 or SL.

3LZR21U

I'm not opposed to a lesser-tier car in any lineup. The problem is, I'm not going to spend 50k+ on something with < 400 hp--even if it is AWD. I cannot even justify a C43 over a Focus RS at the power levels the C43 is making.

I'm really looking for 500+ hp, AWD and convertible. Displacement and engine configuration don't really matter to me; power that wouldn't even be compelling vs. a 90's Japanese halo car--that does bother me.

3LZR21U

I just read an article about the Mustang Raptor. So I may be going that route.

I've said for over 2 years that AWD in a Corvette is perfect to offer a rally package on. Lambo has done it. Porsche has done it. GM missed the boat.

Looks like Ford caught on. Depending on MSRP and actual power in the production vehicle--I am definitely down. Safari-lift on a C8 was always my plan. This might just save the cost/headache.

FAUEE

Not bad if you're under warranty. If you're not under warranty, I'd start picking which organs you'll part with first.

My M50i has been in the shop 3 times in 6 months. First was a broken heating element on the armrest. Next 2 were to resolve a chassis control issue. First time they reprogrammed the suspension, the second time they figured out the auxiliary battery was throwing trouble codes. Both times they were done within the day, and the armrest was a "we will have parts and be done tomorrow" deal, but it's been in the shop more than any other vehicle I've had. They're complex machines with a different take on upkeep than American cars. German designs want the best material and will set a replacement interval when parts might have issues. American designs are built to just work, and will trade off a little effectivenes for lifetime durability.

FAUEE

Dude, that's an April fools joke gone way wrong. They might make a sema concept or something like that, but they're not gonna build them in production lots, lol.

Why are you considering either a high end luxury AWD convertible OR a safari build sports car?

3LZR21U

You're probably right. Ford could easily lift a Mustang (as an option) but putting AWD under the skin is not something I think they are going to do.

What I am interested in has been the same thing since I was a kid and fell in love with the RS200; off-road, AWD sports car. Now clearly that's not going to be easily feasible with BMW or MB. But a strut extension lift on a C8 or a 7G mustang is. Again, this is no different than what Porsche has done with the Dakar or what Lamborghini did with the Sterrato. AWD sports car + 2" lift just makes the total experience better. And if I can get it in convertible--so much better still.

The AMC Eagle was the first "obtainable" car like this, but it was anemic. Rally Fighter was RWD. Etc, etc, etc.

Something like a pre-owned M8 probably costs me half what a spec'd out ER would cost me. I'd just have to live without a lift.

MidLifeinMI

For the specs you're looking at, a Jag F-Type R would check most of the boxes. Between 490-550HP (depending on year), AWD, vert, awesome exhaust note, rare. Biggest disadvantage I can think of would be the tiny trunk, which is unfortunately going to be the case with most 2-seater verts.

flange

How much room do you really need for storage? In the P cars, the boot is decent, if you use soft sided bags, then use the rear seats for storage in lieu of scrunching someone back there with their knees in their face.

3LZR21U

I am incredibly leery of Jag's cost of ownership.

I had 2+2 AWD before, and I like the versatility of the back seats--though it isn't a requirement.

24RiptideBlue

Help me understand what you want out of this car? Do you really plan on taking it off road? The jacked up 911/Lambo etc cars and rally cars in general are amazing but I don’t want to drive one every day.

When the thread started we were taking about AMG and M8. Very expensive very powerful cars… but you want a convertible…. you mentioned a hard cut off of 500HP but in my experience the “number on the box” is a guide… I had a 500HP plus C63s but it was RWD so I couldn’t put the power down. In street driving my AWD C43 400 (HP - tuned) is faster. My C43 also has the AMG low end torque so again, in street driving it feels faster than my 495 HP C8.

I had one of the Supercharged S4’s. Great car. Super fast and fun on the street. Always lusted after the 450HP RS 5 V8…. One popped up so I grabbed it but was very disappointed… the way that car was set up from the factory was crap unless you were in sport or sport plus… just drove lazy….

So you want a convertible, over 500 HP but also like the off road exotics but as I ponder this the off road 911/Lamborghini are not convertibles.

MidLifeinMI

My experience with Jaguar is admittedly short (only owned my F-Type for about 2-1/2 years), but I didn't experience any of the feared excessive costs during that time. The only non-maintenance costs I incurred were replacement of a wheel stud (broken before I purchased; never noticed it) and a dealer visit to diagnose a quirky battery drain (ended up fixing that myself with a simple 30-sec battery disconnect). I kept waiting for a major issue to show up and throw me into bankruptcy, but it never happened. Ended up selling the car for about $47 less than I paid for it.

3LZR21U

I want an "everything" car. It's an unrealistic goal--but still possibly obtainable. There is an array of "ideal" factors I all consider; the best car is the one that accomplishes the most. AWD, power, convertible, cost, small lift. And just because the Sterrato and Dakar are hardtop--doesn't mean that they have to be; the models they are based upon do have convertible variants--which do not require any additional reinforcement.

And yes, it's going to be my daily. And the reason for those power levels is because I do not wish to heavily modify something else to get the requisite performance (making it unreliable). Nor is there a compelling case for compromising on power when settling for a lower amount opens up an slew of off-road specific options for far cheaper.

I had hope for a 2-door bronco being offered with the 3.5L ecoboost from the F-150. But then Ford dorked it up by making even the 2-door chassis too damn long--and offering a much more anemic engine for the Bronco Raptor; and then insult to injury by only offering that on the 4-doors.

Now I'm just curious because I've read/watched reviews of the M8 & SL63. And while they're a not quite as quick, they have cargo capacity, performance, luxury, etc. Giving up rally style lift (potential) and a HTC might be worth it in order to pay half the purchase price (used) and get features like ambient lighting (and a lack of OnStar fuckery).

So now I'm trying to explore ownership costs on these 2 specific models. That will likely be the determining factor. GM is doing its damnedest to convince me not to buy an ER new.