So I'm trying to sell my runflats since I've been advised by Bilstein that non runflat tires are the best way to get better compliance from my coilover suspension and I've come across a couple of tires which seem to be pretty good at a reasonable cost:
1) Pirelli P Zero Nero M/S
2) Kumho Ecsta ASX
Will I experience much less traction than with summer tires?
Will I notice the sidewalls flex?
Will my DRM coilovers require a certain sort of tire?
I'd like some opinions on running an all season tire and for what tire would be good at a reasonable cost. Thanks!
Last edited by Paras; 10-02-2004 at 05:51 AM.
Reason: grammar correction
I'm also very interesting in the Kuhmo Ecsta ASX for all round driving. I'm not a racer, but want a reasonably priced tire that will give me good mileage for the my long road trips. I've been looking at Sear's prices locally, about $750 installed etc. Not bad!
Why are you considering a M&S tread pattern (and similar pattern with the ASX) for your car given your setup? Seems like you're wasting the potential of your coilovers/Bilsteins. There are several tires that will give you decent wet weather performance as well as dry performance; I'm assuming, given your location, that you're not concerned about snow - that's what an all-season tire is for (dry,wet, and snow), which is nonetheless still a compromise design. Try the TireRack's website for some general information on different tires - it is not all inclusive but will give you a start. Good luck.
True, I don't have snow in So. California but I'm considering it because I've been totally unimpressed with my runflats in wet conditions. Also, the current runflats give me ride quality worth crap... I wanted to get something that would absorb a lot of the bumps that I feel as well. I also mostly drive my car in the evenings and on weekends. Often, not in the middle of the day... I thought perhaps the all season tires would perform better when it wasn't so hot...
I'm guessing that the M&S tread pattern is mud and snow...? I didn't know what that was when I posted... Still from reading the descriptions, the Pirelli seems close to having the performance of a summer tire. I did e-mail tire rack and they were not totally opposed to an all season tire. They said it would grip a little less than a summer tire but it didn't seem too significant... I did some research on tirerack and it seemed that the "Ultra High Performance All Season" tires were made for light snow at best due to the fact that they had a lot of performance built into them.
Wamara, I'd be interested in your thoughts. Thanks for the response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wamara
Why are you considering a M&S tread pattern (and similar pattern with the ASX) for your car given your setup? Seems like you're wasting the potential of your coilovers/Bilsteins. There are several tires that will give you decent wet weather performance as well as dry performance; I'm assuming, given your location, that you're not concerned about snow - that's what an all-season tire is for (dry,wet, and snow), which is nonetheless still a compromise design. Try the TireRack's website for some general information on different tires - it is not all inclusive but will give you a start. Good luck.
[quote=Paras]True, I don't have snow in So. California but I'm considering it because I've been totally unimpressed with my runflats in wet conditions.
You're right the stock runflats are so-so IMHO.
Also, the current runflats give me ride quality worth crap... I wanted to get something that would absorb a lot of the bumps that I feel as well.
Any non-runflat will be better than a runflat-runflats must be stiff as a basic design parameter; some rfs are better than others though....
I also mostly drive my car in the evenings and on weekends. Often, not in the middle of the day... I thought perhaps the all season tires would perform better when it wasn't so hot...
I'm no tire guru but for street tires and street driving I don't think this is a concern at all. Plus remember that a longer wearing tire (which I'd speculate would be what all season tires would lean towards) will have a harder tread compound, which will provide poorer traction/grip and possibly a stiffer ride than a summer tire (and summer doesn't mean dry only).
I'm guessing that the M&S tread pattern is mud and snow...?
That is correct.
Still from reading the descriptions, the Pirelli seems close to having the performance of a summer tire. I did e-mail tire rack and they were not totally opposed to an all season tire. They said it would grip a little less than a summer tire but it didn't seem too significant... I did some research on tirerack and it seemed that the "Ultra High Performance All Season" tires were made for light snow at best due to the fact that they had a lot of performance built into them.
Paras, tires are tough to buy; they're not the sort of things that most people will readily change out or switch after a week or two of use - first because most folks won't have a lot of personal comparison experience, and second because it would be a relatively expensive proposition. There has been a lot of discussion about tires here on the forum, and it would be worth your while to spend a little time searching for some threads. Depending on the size tire you want, I think some of the tires that would meet your needs would be Kumho MXs, Toyo Proxes T1-s, Goodyear GS-D3 (I think that's correct), BFGoodrich, Michelin, and even Falken (451's I think). Just don't know that much about the Pirelli's. One thing to keep in mind, since you're concerned about wet weather use, is just to look at the tread pattern. Compare the pattern of the Kumho, Toyo or GY to the tread pattern of say, the Goodyear F1 Supercars that are OEM on the Z06. You will immediately discern the difference; the first three are good dry and wet performers; the Supercars are dry performers only. Again good luck to you.
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND TO ANYONE WHO READS THIS THAT THIS IS WHAT I'VE HEARD--THIS ISN'T REAL LIFE TESTING... I'd really like to see Tire Rack do a comparison (with the tires not revealing what they are) between what are considered to be the best summer tires and ultra high performance tires as labeled by Tire Rack...
I spoke to a Tire Rack rep today. He actually suggested the Kumho Ecsta MXs much more strongly over the ASXs. With my enhanced suspension (wamara you are probably correct here), he said that the MX would serve my purposes better. He said that with stiffer springs, the ASXs would probably lose grip faster and also that the ASX being a mud and snow tire would actually take away some of the performance in the dry AND the rain... He also said that summer tires are good at any temp above 40 degrees Farenheit so if you're living where I'm living, (Southern CA), it appears that summer tires are just fine... but we shall see about all this!
So to list a few items in making the decision to go for summer tires as opposed to all season tires, the Kumho MX v. the Kumho ASX, it seems that the primary difference is
And thanks for acknowledging that the tire decision is tough. Except for the folks at tirerack, there's obviously not a lot of folks with a lot of experience with many different tires...
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND TO ANYONE WHO READS THIS THAT THIS IS WHAT I'VE HEARD--THIS ISN'T REAL LIFE TESTING... I'd really like to see Tire Rack do a comparison (with the tires not revealing what they are) between what are considered to be the best summer tires and ultra high performance tires as labeled by Tire Rack...
I spoke to a Tire Rack rep today. He actually suggested the Kumho Ecsta MXs much more strongly over the ASXs. With my enhanced suspension (wamara you are probably correct here), he said that the MX would serve my purposes better. He said that with stiffer springs, the ASXs would probably lose grip faster and also that the ASX being a mud and snow tire would actually take away some of the performance in the dry AND the rain... He also said that summer tires are good at any temp above 40 degrees Farenheit so if you're living where I'm living, (Southern CA), it appears that summer tires are just fine... but we shall see about all this!
So to list a few items in making the decision to go for summer tires as opposed to all season tires, the Kumho MX v. the Kumho ASX, it seems that the primary difference is
And thanks for acknowledging that the tire decision is tough. Except for the folks at tirerack, there's obviously not a lot of folks with a lot of experience with many different tires...
My suggestion is to forget about all season tires for the C5. Great for fleets but not a good match for a race designed suspension.
Kumho Mx is a great tire. For the money it is also a great value. It's very sticky and does quite well in the wet. My car is a true dual purpose car with lots of roadcourse miles but, also, a lot of long distance drives. The Kumho improves on the runflats in every way but tire life. There are always trade offs so you will give up some tread life for a very noticeable improvement in all other facets of how your car, handles, rides, and performs. I do a lot of instructing so I get to see/feel a lot of different tires. Kumho has a lot of bang for the buck.
Richin Chicago--I think you and wamara are right. The Kumho MX makes sense. After talking to TireRack, I learned a bit. I thought that all season meant that the tires would be better in rain but apparently, that's not the case.
TireRack did however suggest one other tire--the Avon Tech M500. Its in the ultrahigh performance summer category--not "Max performance summer" like the Kumho but per Tirerack, would have better treadwear and less road noise (the only real complaint I've seen of the Kumhos) at the cost of a little traction/grip (but still an improvement over the Goodyears as far as traction/grip).
What's your guys' opinion on this?
Richin Chicago--I think you and wamara are right. The Kumho MX makes sense. After talking to TireRack, I learned a bit. I thought that all season meant that the tires would be better in rain but apparently, that's not the case.
TireRack did however suggest one other tire--the Avon Tech M500. Its in the ultrahigh performance summer category--not "Max performance summer" like the Kumho but per Tirerack, would have better treadwear and less road noise (the only real complaint I've seen of the Kumhos) at the cost of a little traction/grip (but still an improvement over the Goodyears as far as traction/grip).
What's your guys' opinion on this?
I have no experience with the Avon but looking at the reviews I think it will have better tread life, not sure on the noise, and definitely less grip.
Something to think about on tread life. Are you going to keep the car another 3 years and are you going to drive it over 20 to 25K miles in that time. For me, tires should be replaced after 3 years no matter what the tread is. So, unless, you are going to do a fair amount of driving tread life may be a moot point.
Yeah, doesn't look like anyone around here has driven on Avons... I do plan to keep the car about three years and average about 12,000 miles/year... My Goodyear runflats are down pretty low after a year...
I just called TireRack to confirm what I was told earlier about all season tires and summer tires and the rain...
Today, the rep told me that all season tires would be better in the rain as opposed to summer tires... the last two times I called, a TireRack rep told me that summer tires would perform better in the rain than the all season tires... I just want a consistent definite answer... what's the deal?
The reason that I get so bent out of shape about this is cause even though I live in Southern California, I want a tire that performs well in the rain (I've had almost a handful of scary experiences with Goodyear runflats in the wet and don't want to have to drive scared when it rains!)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paras
Richin Chicago--I think you and wamara are right. The Kumho MX makes sense. After talking to TireRack, I learned a bit. I thought that all season meant that the tires would be better in rain but apparently, that's not the case.
TireRack did however suggest one other tire--the Avon Tech M500. Its in the ultrahigh performance summer category--not "Max performance summer" like the Kumho but per Tirerack, would have better treadwear and less road noise (the only real complaint I've seen of the Kumhos) at the cost of a little traction/grip (but still an improvement over the Goodyears as far as traction/grip).
What's your guys' opinion on this?
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All Season Tires 4 my '01 Coupe--and questions...
