Why nitrogen?

[redson]

http://getnitrogen.org/why/index.php

[Luke@tirerack]

Why nitrogen ... why indeed

while it is a nice webpage it has several factually incorrect statements ...

Nitrogen is a profit producer for service facilities. There is no evidence that a properly maintained tire would perform any better with nitrogen when compared to a tire with normal air ....

they tout the longer wheel life because wheels rudt with normal air .... over 70% of cars come with alloy wheels .... when was the last time you saw aluminum rust?

Indy cars use normal compressed air which is thoroughly dried

From Perry's Chemical Engineers' Handbook
At standard conditions (0°C, 1 atm):
density of air = 1.2928 g/L
density of N2 = 1.2507 g/L
density of O2 = 1.4289 g/L

They are all pretty close, and O2 is acutally a bit more dense than N2.

theoretically nitrogen is more stable than normal air due to the lack of moisture and there are benefits when in extreme use (i.e. going into outerspace) but for real world drivers I see no reason to use it. Give me 78% nitrogen and I will be happy

[redson]

Do whatever makes ya happy! -My Corvette is parked over the winter months here in Washington State...thats a long time around here.I used to have some leakage & some flat spotting as a result.After switching over to nitrogen,its now insignificant.I also switched over my daily driver,a Mitsubishi Galant GTZ,that I commute to work in at sometimes long distances....& yes I did notice a slight increase in fuel mileage--kinda nice with prices of fuel these days.- I just bought a set of new wheels & tires for the Elky recently,& will propbly convert it as well.-I dont see why I shouldnt.With the amount of cash I put out for all the "high end " wheel/tire packages we do these days,anything that would extend or enhance their safety,performance,& longevity is good reason & worth trying it out.After all,its all free where I get/got it done. Someplaces will only do it if you've bought tires from them...then its free.If you arentt buying,use the website,put in your zip & check around.More & more places are offering the service daily. As for me,no I dont make,sell,or get anything out of this...its all new to me as well.... If you dont care,dont do it.I just posted this topic as iinfo only

[NYC6]

Aluminum doesnt rust per-se but it does oxidize, breaking down the metal to aluminum-oxide. Oxygen also oxidizes rubber products.

[Luke@tirerack]

it's Kool aide guys ..... a profit center flavored kool aide ....

fuel economy would not be any different using a tire with 35 psi of compressed air verses 35 psi of nitrogen.

and oxidation has nothing to do with moisture ... it's oxygen and that's why aluminum whells are clear coated in most cases

ALL GASES and combination of gases will expand at increased temperature. If the volume remains constant,(as in a tire) and the temperature rises, the pressure rises to a corresponding amount. (Boyles Law, Charles Law, Gay-lussacc Law and the Combined gas laws of physics 101) This happens with Air and with Nitrogen. It happens to a SLIGHTLY less degree with N2(nitrogen) than with air( 78% N2 and roughly 22% oxygen ) due to the higher atomic number and weight that oxygen has. Whether this difference corresponds to a significant change in regards to tires or racing remains a matter of debate. Furthermore, there is no guarantee that a given supply of nitrogen has less water in it than air. Use what you like but be well informed.

[WELEPRO]

Nice write up Luke-

I was reading last months consumer reports magazine on a flight recently, and they had an interesting side bar on using nitrogen in tires.

These numbers aren't exact, as I'm writing this from memory.

CR took 100 tires, and inflated 50 of the with nitrogen, and 50 with compressed air. They then set all 100 outside for a year.

On average, after 1 year, the tires filled with compressed air lost 1 psi more than those filled with nitrogen.

[Luke@tirerack]

I check my tires more than once a year

[redson]

It's not about the nitrogen. It's about reducing oxygen, water vapor and other gases.

By reducing the percentage of oxygen, water vapor and other gases in your tires from 22% to 7% or lower, your tires will maintain proper pressure longer than if you use “plain old air.” For example, with 95% nitrogen in your tires, they retain optimal pressure three to four times longer.

[WELEPRO]

Originally Posted by Luke@tirerack

I check my tires more than once a year

I would expect you to! Everyone should...once a month

[rfn026]

Goodyear has a discussion of this. Basically they don't see any benefit to nitrogen inflation. They use nitrogen for earth movers, but not on vehicles that use roads. They do point out that there is very little data and research on this.

Until someone can show me more data I'll stick with normal air.

Richard Newton

Wheel and Tire Performance Handbook

Corvette C5 Performance Projects: 1997-2004

[redson]

Originally Posted by rfn026

Goodyear has a discussion of this. Basically they don't see any benefit to nitrogen inflation. They use nitrogen for earth movers, but not on vehicles that use roads. They do point out that there is very little data and research on this.

Until someone can show me more data I'll stick with normal air.

Richard Newton

Wheel and Tire Performance Handbook

Corvette C5 Performance Projects: 1997-2004

Goodyear Memo-> http://getnitrogen.org/pdf/print_art...tsNitrogen.pdf ---- University Fleet Study-> http://www.automotivedigest.com/view...ticlesID=23122 -> Tire Stores Invite Customers To Get 'Nitro-Nized' With Nitrogen Tire Inflation
ALLEN PARK, Mich., April 17 -- Starting today at Belle Tire stores in Michigan and Ohio, drivers can get better, safer, longer-lasting and more consistent performance from their tires by Nitro-Nizing them. Belle Tire Nitro-Nizes tires with their state-of-the-art system that inflates tires with nitrogen rather than compressed air. Nitrogen has several important advantages over air and is now available free at Belle Tire for a limited time with the purchase of any new tire. Even if you don't need new tires right now, you still can gain all the advantages nitrogen offers by Nitro-Nizing your existing tires for a nominal fee.

"Now Belle Tire customers can get the same high-tech advantages previously available only on airliners, business jets, race cars and the NASA Space Shuttle," said Don Barnes, president of Belle Tire. "Just as we helped shape the retail tire industry with our 'out the door' pricing, Belle Tire is doing it again with the launch of Nitro-Nize. We're committed to bringing our customers the best technology, performance and safety available anywhere. I'm confident they'll love the many benefits of nitrogen-inflated tires."

Nitro-Nized tires maintain proper pressure up to three times longer because nitrogen diffuses through tire walls more slowly than air. This gives drivers several important safety and performance advantages:

* Problems associated with under-inflation are reduced. Under-inflated
tires run hotter and wear faster due to increased rolling resistance. A
tire that is 10 percent under-inflated will lose approximately seven
percent of its service life.
* Tires maintain their strength longer. Nitrogen-filled tires show twice
the life to failure in both field and laboratory tests due to absence
of interior oxidation caused by the oxygen in compressed air.
* Tires perform better. Nitrogen can help increase tire mileage by as
much as 25 percent. Tires that are properly inflated respond better to
steering input and handle better.
* Tire pressure is more consistent. Compressed air expands at varying
rates depending on the amount of water vapor it contains; nitrogen is
"dry" and expands at a consistent, predictable rate.
In addition, nitrogen tire inflation is better for your wallet and better for the environment. Belle Tire estimates customers can save up to $125 per year in vehicle operating costs if they Nitro-Nize their tires, depending on the number of miles driven annually. On a larger scale, Americans could save 3.7 billion gallons of gas per year if they maintained proper tire pressure with nitrogen. Examine the facts:

* Americans use about 375 million gallons of gasoline per day.
SOURCE: http://www.eia.doe.gov/ ; Energy Information Administration
* That equals 136,875,000,000 gallons per year.
SOURCE: Official Energy Statistics from the U.S. Government
* 220 million vehicles in the U.S. drive 11,600 miles per year.
SOURCE: Energy Information Administration; http://www.eia.doe.gov/
* That equals 6,991,780,821.918 combined miles per day.
SOURCE: Official Energy Statistics from the U.S. Government;
http://www.eia.doe.gov/
* You can improve your gas mileage by around 3.3 percent by keeping tires
inflated to the proper pressure. Under-inflated tires can lower gas
mileage by 0.4 percent for every 1 psi drop in pressure of all four
tires.
SOURCE: US Dept. of Energy, US Environmental Protection Agency;
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/
* Every gallon of gasoline a vehicle burns puts 20 pounds of carbon
dioxide into the atmosphere.
SOURCE: US Dept. of Energy, US Environmental Protection Agency;
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/
* The U.S. uses about 20 million barrels of oil per day, two-thirds of
which is used for transportation. One barrel of crude oil (42 gallons)
produces approximately 19.9 gallons of finished motor gasoline.
SOURCE: US Dept. of Energy, US Environmental Protection Agency;
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/
* As many as 85 percent of motorists do not properly check their tire
inflation pressure.
SOURCE: Rubber Manufacturers Association, February 2003 RMA survey;
http://www.rma.org/
CONCLUSION: If 85 percent of the 220 million vehicles on the road today improved their gas mileage by 3.3 percent, the U.S. would save: 3,716,692,884.802 gallons of gas per year.

Information provided by http://www.getnitrogen.org/ . Visit their web site for more information on nitrogen and its benefits.

Belle Tire is family-owned and operated, has 75 stores in Michigan and Ohio, and is based in Allen Park, Mich. For more information visit the web site at http://www.belletire.com/ .

[SkyKing421]

I guess the O2 that is on the OUTSIDE of your tire is doing the same terrible damage!!!
Not!

I agree. BIG profit center for the unknowing to spend.

[redson]

Originally Posted by SkyKing421

I guess the O2 that is on the OUTSIDE of your tire is doing the same terrible damage!!!
Not!

I agree. BIG profit center for the unknowing to spend.

Not if its free everywhere.

[Luke@tirerack]

Originally Posted by redson

Goodyear Memo-> http://getnitrogen.org/pdf/print_art...tsNitrogen.pdf ---- University Fleet Study-> http://www.automotivedigest.com/view...ticlesID=23122 -> Tire Stores Invite Customers To Get 'Nitro-Nized' With Nitrogen Tire Inflation
ALLEN PARK, Mich., April 17 -- Starting today at Belle Tire stores in Michigan and Ohio, drivers can get better, safer, longer-lasting and more consistent performance from their tires by Nitro-Nizing them. Belle Tire Nitro-Nizes tires with their state-of-the-art system that inflates tires with nitrogen rather than compressed air. Nitrogen has several important advantages over air and is now available free at Belle Tire for a limited time with the purchase of any new tire. Even if you don't need new tires right now, you still can gain all the advantages nitrogen offers by Nitro-Nizing your existing tires for a nominal fee.

while, I see the advantages when you are talking about the space shuttle but, earthbound vehicles do not see such dramatic temperture swings and also have an easier time checking and refilling the tires.

there is zero proof that a tire filled with nitrogen performs better or even significantly different than a properly maintained air filled tire.

in the end it's another profit center.

[dkrhardy]

Hi Luke! Just talked to you about the GY EMT patch question (on the phone).
I have ALWAYS thought that air being mostly nitrogen is perfectly OK in any car tire. Besides, if you need to adjust pressure, are you gonna run back to XYZ dealer to have them top a tire off? Most likely you'll turn on your compressor and add those few lbs. It has to be a bit of a cash cow for those folks so they are sure to promote the hype.

[jornahow]

Try helium - shave a couple of pounds off the unsprung weight

[khblair]

if the guys want to fill my tires with nitrogen for free - thats fine with me. no complaints here

[DREGSZ]

We used to race w nitrogen in the tires for High Speed Open Road events in Nevada, speeds of 140 MPH and up to about 170 for me, 190+ for my buddy.
I forget what the advantages were spozed to be, it's been about 8 years.
less expansion? better heat control?
I forget.
E

[redson]

Originally Posted by khblair

if the guys want to fill my tires with nitrogen for free - thats fine with me. no complaints here

Kim...I'll fill your tires with whatever you want! LOL --I havent done any kind of 'scientific' testing,but it seemed to me I have less issues with leaking tire pressure,& maybe alittle more mileage. The mileage could be because of more consistent tire pressure....

[waktasz]

I use helium because it makes the car lighter.