kpgstingray

NOTE: I am currently working with Eric at Pfadt to resolve all issues below. So far, Eric has been very responsive in working through my problems, but as of today (November 18th, 2013) the problems I am experiencing are *not resolved*. I have full intentions to post what resolutions have been made and how Pfadt dealt with the problems all the way to the end. AS OF NOW, I would personally suggest you wait to purchase any Pfadt long tube headers and their free header tune until Pfadt is able to fix the problems I am going to show here. This is in no way meant to bash Pfadt, but to make sure people who buy their products do not go through this same process I am.

*UPDATE - 11/19* I have decided to remove the Pfadt Headers and Pfadt tune and go a different route. Please see THIS POST for the update.

First off, a little background, I bought my C7 last month and I have 1800ish miles on it. It is a Z51 / M7 / MRC / NPP car. I have had no problems with it thus far (knock on wood).

I first started with Pfadt's standard tune. The tune was great, and the car felt very good with it compared to stock. I have been in constant communication with Eric Youseffi at Pfadt, and although I cant say everything went perfect, he has been more than willing to address my concerns with the tune. I had some initial knock/pinging with the original tune, so he suggested I run datalogs and email them back. The next day I had a tune that fixed this issue, and I was very happy.

Because of the good experience I had with this tune, I decided to go ahead and purchase their Tri-Y headers through RPI Design at the end of October, I believe October 28th. They are a dealer and I used a coupon code to get a great deal so I went through them.

After some back and forth issues with shipping because Pfadt did not have everything in stock, I finally received the headers on Friday. They actually delivered them straight to the shop I was having them installed at- Cunningham Motorsports in Murrieta, CA. NOTE that I ordered the headers with the CATTED x-pipe / midpipe.

Eric emailed me the free header tune that was promised, and I loaded it up right before driving to Cunningham for the install. The car actually felt the best it has ever felt with this tune without the headers- go figure.

I dropped the car off and met one of the techs at CMS (Mike) who was a really nice guy. Their shop looked great and had a lot of C6's and Camaros. I did a lot of research on Cunningham (they are also a supporting vendor here on the forums) and knew I was in good hands from an installation standpoint. I planned on having them do a run on their Mustang dyno after the header install.. I wasn't concerned with a baseline because I already had the header tune loaded.

About 5 hours later, I got the call to come back to the shop and talk about the header install and to see the dyno run.

This is when I met Ryne Cunningham, owner of Cunningham Motorsports, who was less than pleased and impressed with the Pfadt long tube system for my car. He said it was frustrating to install because nothing lined up correctly. Ryne and Mike had to really work to make the mid pipe even fit in the center tunnel, but even then, he said the jig to produce the headers must have been "way off". He showed me pics of the mid pipe hitting the frame rail and heat shields and said there is nothing else that can be done due to the poor fit of the way the headers were built.

Because of this, when accelerating or when idling and giving a little gas you can hear the mid pipe vibrating against the car and also a slight 'bang' when hard accelerating or cruising in a 5th/6th on the free way and when the motor is under part throttle. Its not horrible, but its audible enough to hear and shouldn't be happening of course.

Also, no O2 sensor extensions were sent. The front O2 sensor wires had to be 'stretched' to fit, and the rear O2 sensor wires simply could not reach so they had to be removed and the rear O2 sensor hole plugged.

Because the rear O2 sensor was not functioning, I received a Check Engine Light (CEL) and various PO codes relating to the rear O2 sensor.

Not sure why O2 extensions were not included and why the Pfadt header tune did not tune out the rear O2 if they have actually had customers installing the Catless Tri-Y header system.

Midpipe hitting frame rail







Also, I noticed an issue with the rear exhaust pipes. They were now sticking out almost 2" from the rear fascia and looked horrible. I addressed this with Ryne @ CMS and he said due to a poor angle on the mid-pipe, there was no way the NPP exhaust system could push all the way in the pipe to get it back far enough to the stock location. Not acceptable.



When the car ran on the dyno, it put out 440HP / 439lb-ft which is much lower than some results we have seen on this forum. Ryne said this Pfadt header tune was "very rich" and there was a lot more power to be had. The AFR through various RPMs were 11.8 - 11.4. Keep in mind this is using California 91 octane, but I was still expecting 450+ HP and 455+ lb-ft. This was on a Mustang dyno, but Ryne said it reports numbers in line with a Dyno jet. They have baselined another C7, and it was an automatic Z51. It put down as high as 428HP stock, but averaged 408 wheel HP so their dyno is in-line with other baseline numbers we have seen. That was also an automatic, mine is manual.

What I did was immediately email Eric @ Pfadt regarding the rich tune with Check Engine Lights and about the poor fitment of the midpipe.

He replied relatively quickly and we are currently going back and forth about getting a new tune and fixing this mid pipe problem. So far the steps Eric has mentioned to disable the O2 CEL's have not worked which leads me to believe I may be the first C7 owner to install their Catted Tri-Y headers.. Can anyone else chime in here who have installed their catted X pipe and have had a different story?

So as of this morning I have a CEL, vibrating X-pipe, too rich rune, and exhaust tips sticking out way too far from my car and I am unsure when this will be fixed. Also, the idle is much rougher and only idling at 600rpms (I forgot what the stock idle is, maybe it is lower due to the headers now?)

Those are the cons. The pros are the car feels faster under WOT, a little less powerful under part throttle (likely due to tune and poor calibration of butt dyno LOL), and the sound is AMAZING. Huge difference.

If you are thinking of buying Pfadt long tubes and their tune- I would suggest, IMHO, that you wait for them to resolve my problem to ensure this does not happen to you. I hope they chime in here as well and we work together to improve their parts for all C7 customers.

Thank you.

BDRME

Forget about dyno numbers unless you have before and after runs. Stock C7/auto
making 428 at the wheels = 5.9% driveline loss on the dyno. Seems a little low to me.
Good luck on the exhaust fitment. You're in good hands...
me

kpgstingray

Hey Avette,

I encourage not to necessarily cancel your order.

You may want to contact them and tell them to hold off on the order until this is resolved- there is a good chance your order has not been built yet. They may take what they learn from my car and apply that fix to yours.

I really think they will be able to fix my problem but definitely be aware of this. I am thinking the non-catted guys are fine and its only an issue with the catted midpipe but I am not 100%, obviously. Seems some people have installed the non-catted version and there have been no complaints. I think they haven't had CEL's because they are getting custom tunes too. The Pfadt header tune (as it stands today) will result in a CEL but I am confident they will have a fix soon for me.

kpgstingray

That was on a cold car, on the first run. They made multiple runs and the average was 408HP / 399lb-ft torque. Seems right to me.

And yes, I feel between CMS and Pfadt I am in good hands and will be able to update this thread with a positive outcome. One thing I have learned is Eric @ Pfadt seems willing to help and even replied to my emails on the weekend. No complaints here on that front, just crossing my fingers we don't get into the whole Installer vs. Part company he said/she said finger pointing thing. I don't see that happening as of now though.

kpgstingray

No worries man. I have been through worse things so I am not stressing much here. Just a heads up for others though of course, and hoping at the end of the day once its all good Pfadt's products are even that much better.

But yes, it is unacceptable and they should send me new parts. I don't see why they wouldn't, I just hope it isn't a long drawn out process to get me a new mid pipe. I will keep this thread updated as everything progresses though!

OD3G

Stop. Put down the computer. Step away from the Internet.

Pfadt Racing

Kris, just like I apologized to you over the phone & email for these issues, I'd like to also apologize to you here on the forum. That being said, unfortunately, you are the only one to our knowledge that has had any issues with our headers. This is why we are working so hard with you and Cunningham to resolve those issues.

Like I tell all my valued customers, we are in the business to make your car better and make you happy, period. This is why, even at home on the weekend with my family, I made sure to respond to your emails and do my best to help you out. Every manufacturer on this forum has had a moment when something goes wrong that shouldn't have, and it looks like you might be the unlucky recipient of that moment. But what separates the good manufacturers from the bad ones is how they deal with these problems (trust me...most won't be answering questions on a Sunday afternoon). I assure you here, just like I did over email and the phone that we will make you 100% satisfied with your headers, just like we did with your tune, and you can call us anytime to discuss your issues. We are already in contact with Cunningham to resolve this issue so you don't need to worry about anything anymore. We are glad you think the car feels better, sounds amazing, and offers a "huge difference" over stock. We stand behind our products as well as our customers, and all we want you to worry about is not getting speeding tickets with your new power upgrades. Please call me again with any concerns.

0Cunningham Motorsports

We are a dealer pfadt, and have a great relationship with them. Like all companies mistakes happen. this scenario is no different. However I am quite sure pfadt will rectify all issues in a expedited manner. These are new cars and sometimes simply these things happen. Please to other people it's only been two days, we installed the headers on this past Saturday , it's now Monday . Let's give pfadt a chance here.

kpgstingray

Thank you both and I look forward to updating this post with positive developments very soon

Matt26

Except your car is not jacked up and there are many others with Pfadt headers that are just fine as well.

You need to take a chill pill.

kpgstingray

Although I can understand where AVETTE is coming from, because he did order Pfadt headers and is a bit worried about his, we need to just step back and realize this could be an isolated issue. This product is so new and everyone is just learning their ways around this car, I knew I would be a guinea pig for not only a first model C7 and GM, but aftermarket companies and installers too. I am cool with that and am just trying to be as patient and understanding with everything.

I really don't want to let this thread get out of hand and get locked, or worse, deleted. I want to be able to update this with a positive outcome so lets give it a little while to work itself out and by it being public Pfadt should come out even better in the public eye. I would have to think many other companies wouldn't even bat an eye at these problems and would ignore my attempts to resolve the problem, so if anything this thread will document just how well Pfadt assists customer issues and works with their dealers.

Thank you

Matt26

Well said,

This forum needs more people that have a calm head and handle issues like yourself and a few other examples like the guy that had his car sent back to Bowling Green to be repainted.

I am certain Pfadt will take care of your issues and wish you the best of luck!

0JDP Motorsports

This is the first issue I've heard of regarding the Pfadt headers. I know Pfadt is aware of the situation and it will be taken care of in a timely manner. There is no need to get worked up and over react. Cunningham and Pfadt will get this worked out and the OP will be stoked.

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley
888.308.6007

MoabC7

As mentioned before, chill. You are going nuclear for no reason at this point. Have some patience grasshopper and let everyone work this out. From meeting with Pfdat personally, I have no doubt they will make it right. They are good, honest people.

0Ron@Vengeance Racing

To the OP... As others have said above you are in good hands... Mistakes happen, its how people deal with those mistakes that separates them from the competition. Pfadt is a leader in this industry and will get you taken care of as quick as possible.

Jimsgn

All the aftermarket companies are scrambling to be the "first" with their prospective products . I have short tube headers from ARH on my C7 beta testing them. Sh....t will happen ,all companies make mistakes ,especially when new products come out for new motors. Good companies admit their mistakes and rectify them. I have confidence in Pfadt or ARH as companies with integrity . Pfadt will ultimately fix your problem ,probably not as fast as you ( or I ) would like but it will get fixed. jim maguire

0Cunningham Motorsports

I have been in contact with the engineers at pfadt... The op is driving to us right now as I type.. The engineers gave us some insight on the midpipe. We will make adjustments the certain way they like, hopefully this gets resolved today.

sallen619

When things don't go as planned, good people step up to make it right. CMS and Pfadt will take care of you.

kpgstingray

Here is my update for today... I literally just walked in the door a few minutes minutes ago. Ryne, owner of Cunningham Motorsports, personally drove me home (a one hour drive!) because I was not comfortable driving my car home in its current condition. Unbelievable customer service, I am unsure of many other shop owners who would drive a two hour round-trip for their customer.

In regards to the header/midpipe issue, I am not going to go into too much detail, because CMS will be working with Pfadt tomorrow morning to work out the details after today's efforts and don't want to upset anyone until this is all said and done.

Earlier today I received an email from Eric @ Pfadt indicating there was a certain procedure to follow when installing Pfadt's Tri-Y headers vs. standard headers due to their one piece design. Keep in mind, no printed directions are shipped in the box. They determined that CMS may not have performed the installation the way Pfadt recommends, so they said that may be part of the problem.

The engineer spoke with Ryne @ CMS and gave him some verbal instructions on how to install the headers. He mentioned the entire system (headers and midpipe) has to stay unbolted and loose to adjust everything, then torque it all down. I personally have never seen header installations done this way, as headers need to be lined up perfectly then torqued to the block, then the midpipe installed from there on.. but if that's what Pfadt recommends its worth a shot then. Ryne gave me a call and told me this same exact thing, and asked if I could bring the car down which I obliged. Ryne mentioned the engineer wanted him to try this method and see how it works.

Once I got down to the shop, Ryne and Mike took apart the mid pipe section and loosened up everything as per Pfadt's instructions. I literally watched these guys try everything they could... pushing, pulling, twisting, tugging.. etc etc. The mid pipe and where it fits into the headers are simply not correct. It's not rocket science here, these are metal pipes and those pipes fit into other pipes. Unfortunately, these pipe angles are not right and the system pulls to the left pretty bad.

One positive thing was they were able to get the exhaust tips tucked a bit more and that looks good now.

Once the system was bolted up, we noticed the headers making some distinct sounds when fired up. It turns out the flange on the headers are slightly warped, and they used measuring tools to check the gap and sure enough - they are slightly warped and now leaking.

We determined it was not wise to drive the car back at this point, and Ryne will work with Pfadt tomorrow to have the headers and midpipe replaced. Eric has promised that if there are any fitment issues a new system would be sent right away. I do not doubt them at this point and look forward to them discussing what occurred today and quickly resolving the problem that has caused me to leave my car at CMS which is one hour away.

Also, the tune and Check Engine Light error codes have yet to be addressed so I am assuming Pfadt is working with the company who does their tunes to fix the software and tune file for use with their headers.

Here below you can see after a good 1.5-2 hours of trying to get this system to line up it just simply does not sit in the center tunnel correctly. You will notice the drivers side header also is pulling in the mid pipe to the left/drivers side of the vehicle. No amount of tweaking will correct this as I witnessed.



I will keep updating this post and hope Pfadt sends new parts out ASAP and I can get my car back in a timely matter.

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

phils C5 vette

I think this is the most import part of this thread. The C7 has been on the road for a month or two. Aftermarket companies had to get them, and start designing. Ive been dealing with Pfadt a lot lately from other forums, and they are quick and efficient.

The key to remember is all their product are VERY well made, but when companies run their design (any company), sometimes when they run their CAD modeling for fitted parts, the vehicle design might change a 1/2" here or a 1/2" on the OEM build. Its like GM fixing the fuel gauges already.

New car design and new header design. Trust me this will workout and the modification community will love these headers.

I've consistently seen more RWHP and RWTQ produced from these headers than any other on the market. I wasn't a believer at first, until I've seen several car with better results in person. Im not talking internet numbers that veriy from day to day and dyno to dyno.


I just ordered mine last week.