mountainbiker2

I'm running 335's in the front. Of course it took some cutting.

Maybe you can post some pictures up. I liked to see it. I bought a Kognition wing, but I decided to sale it before I even got it. I went with a dual element.

Steve A.

Lucas

Yesterday I ran 129.66 (CCW), in the beginner group (first time on the track), on NT555R2 tires (100 tread wear).

Evolution-ary

Saturday, Feb 9, I ran a 1:24.3 on R6Hoosiers, CW config, with SV's lovely hay bail in the Chicane!

Olitho

SoWS is a great little track. I think it is better for really learning to drive compared to a point and shoot track like ACS or a fast intimidating track like WSIR. All the tracks are good for learning, but the lower speed at a track like SoWS will help you gain comfort with rotating a car into the corner and driving at slip angles. Learning that on a track like WSIR or at ACS is just flat intimidating for almost everyone.

Good work you guys.

Evolution-ary

I'll be first to say thanks Oli, since you commented after me.. Streets was my first ever track day a year and a half ago, and still my favorite track.. (only been on WSIR ( more than a few times, PB 1:35 on street tires) and Button Willow (once each direction) where times are not even worth mentioning!)

I've watched your video many times (flying belts and all) of your 1:18 there.. someday you'll have to get some good video of your awesome driving at SOW so we all can study it better

Learning how to drive this car is an incredibly fun challenge.. I decided to move to R6's after a year and a half (12-14 track experiences?) on my otherwise stock C6Z as I felt the NTO5's were not doing the job.. do you have an opinion on this move? Is it better to slip and slide around (and learn how to drive through it) on lesser tires and stock suspension, or is this R6 move warranted? (I'm still on HP+ front pads too, stock rotors, all stock rear, stock suspension)

I have video of my fast laps here if you care to comment...
Any direction from someone like you that knows WTF they're doing in a car on a track is welcome by us all I'm fairly certain.. for me, for sure!

Thanks,
Dave

mikeidentity

Cool vid dave! Thats a fast time.

Evolution-ary

thanks!

Olitho

I will comment on your driving after watching the video, although sometimes I feel video can do an inadequate job of telling the whole story.

Regarding R6 tires, my only real beef with those tires is that the heat cycle quickly and lose so much of their performance in as few as three heat cycles. For that reason I like the A6. The A6 wears really fast, but it is really fast for the short life of the tire. R6s can get really frustrating after a number of heat cycles for me.

Running a DOT-R tire is fine. Most are very predictable and fast, they just don't talk to you audibly like sreet tires so you must drive more on feel and not sound. Because the grip is higher on race tires you just need to drive faster to get them running at the right slip angle.

Olitho

I watched the video. You line is incredibly good. What surprised me most is how consistent you are on your line on both laps. My main comments I can make without riding with you:
1. You need to use more of the track, but in your case we are only talking inches at turn-in, apex and track out in most places. Worth .5 second
2. If you can start feeding in more power by 1 or 2 car lengths sooner exiting the corners I bet you can pick up 1-2 seconds.

After that you just need to drive at higher slip angles. That means you will be driving the car closer to the razors edge of uber fast or flying off the track somewhere. It is a fine line.

You are doing great so just keep refining you driving and your feel for the car and the tires.

Evolution-ary

Thanks Oli for taking the time... I'm so new at this really, that although I understand what you are saying and agree, it seems to me that they all play off one another, which basically boils down to much more seat time to learn the car... I'm so used to having a (unwelcome) higher slip angle on the NTO5's, but ridiculous oversteer and abrupt power on oversteer that I'm still gun-shy even with the R6 traction to get on the power sooner, but know I should.. having said that, although I've experimented with all traction off, which I enjoy the feel of the car much more, but spun both times I've tried it (low speed thankfully), I kept it in Comp mode on that video.. I'm sure the active handling light was on more than not! And I might have been a little quicker still with it off, as is always the case, because I can really feel what the car is doing based on my inputs, rather than the computer thinking for me... but... more seat time will help bring more confidence where that is concerned.

I wish I had the time to practice more, and the budget for endless R6's (I already started to cord the left outside front, this being the 3rd track day on them), so I get what you're saying, and those best times were in the first session of the day, they seemed to loosen up quite a bit as the day wore on... which leads me to a question.. do you have knowledge of desired air pressure for these things for that track? I was following my Nitto rule of lower pressure is good.. so I was at 35-37 hot on the left front, 32-33 hot right front, and the rears were a bit less... I resisted the urge to take too much out of the left front based on Hoosiers' guidelines about loaded tires having more air, thus with the CW config, I left it higher than I might think I should. And it really wasn't hot.. that left front only got up to 120º!

Anyway, thanks for your time, and I hope to see you out there some time and get a real lesson ... I have endless questions about where to take the car next (suspension) but I think I'll work towards that 1-2 sec faster as it is first..

I look forward to working on all you have suggested though, once I get back on the track! And I hope your input has helped others on the thread here for some food for thought...

Thanks again,
Dave

Olitho

You are cording the outside of the Hoosiers because they like a lot of camber. While it is not practical on the street, I run -3.5 on the front of my T1 Corvette. The rear is -1.5.

Here is where I will compound the problem. I go out on 18 PSI rear and 20 front cold. When they get hot they go to about 27 all the way around the car. Hoosiers website is misleading. I think they assume 275 tires on a much heavier car like a Camaro, Mustang or CTS-V. You won't get your tires as hot most likely so you should go out with a bit more than I do. Where it gets sticky is that the Hoosiers not only like camber, but at lower pressures your outside shoulder cording problem will exacerbate. You will need to find some sort of balance... or buy tires as the start to cord badly. At first the cording will be minimal, but obviously it will get worse each run.

Hercules Rockefeller

Oli,

Although I run Kumho V710's, I'm beginning to suspect what you're saying about the tire pressures re: Hoosiers is true for all DOT R-comps. They always say to shoot for 32-34 PSI, but I think that's way too much. I'm wearing out the center of my tires, so I think my camber settings are spot on, but the tire is just "bulging" due to excessive pressure. Maybe I'd get a better contact patch and more even wear if I aimed for a peak pressure of 27 psi?

0C_Williams@RPM

Can you run Tire Relief Valves or are they illegal?

Many sanctioning bodies won't allow you to run these but if you can legally use them, you can take a lot of headache out of the process.

http://www.longacreracing.com/catalo...id=579&catid=9

Hercules Rockefeller

Cool! A little while ago I was thinking there should be something like this; you just pressurize to your target pressure cold in the pits, and as the tire heats up, the pressure stays the same. Great idea!

Olitho

I agree. The V710s are the same way, but about one or two PSI higher. I start with 22 front and 20 rear on V710s. I end up around 28-29 PSI hot.

Olitho

These are great. I have thought about buying them several times. One set for my qualifying and another for my race wheels would be the way to go. Then I can go out an focus just on warming the rubber up and not have to worry so much about low pressure in the first few laps.

I have heard from a few people that they can fail. That and the fact that there is essentially now two valve stem type appliances on the wheel that can break off if "racing is rubbing" is of concern.

I think I will plan to test a set of these later this year.

Olitho

Hey Charlie, thanks for that link. Not only are these now $73 vs $400+, the are very small and the don't stick up like valves stems with a big lump on the end. These are small and should be well protected in the wheel.

Evolution-ary

YES, thanks Charlie for that link... ordering mine now

EDIT --- just had a thought tho, and a question... what if the rims have TPMS? Do you know if it conflicts/works?

mountainbiker2

I just Autocross now, but I think one of my biggest improvements have been not letting go of the steering wheel. No shuffle steering.

Olitho

I agree with that personally. I am with you that I try to keep my hands as fixed as possible, but SoWS does require a bit of shuffling in a couple of spots, but usually keep one hand fixed in the original position in case I need to correct quickly.

I know some schools teach shuffling. I prefer not.