Changing to SS Brake Lines... Questions...
07-28-2004, 10:12 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Changing to SS Brake Lines... Questions...
Hey all,
I am interested in changing to SS brake lines and upgrading to DOT4 fluid on my '03 Z06 since I autocross.
I went to a dealership and got an estimate of $350 (with me providing the lines and fluid). The Tech (20+ years working on vettes) said that to go to DOT4 I would need to change all the brake system components. This didn't sound right to me since I have seen many posts here about going to DOT 4 and never heard about anyone changing all the components. Anyway, does this sound like a high price?
Is is possible for me to change the lines myself? I have never done anything with brakes (never even changed my own pads). I am very machanically inclined, but I just don't really know what to do. If I did change the lines but decided to stay with DOT3 do I still have to bleed the lines or do an entire flush? If so, then I should just replace with DOT4 correct? Does anyone have a link to step by step instructions for this entire proceedure with pictures? Like I said, I think I could do it, if I had the right information and tools.
Thanks in advance,
Piranha
I am interested in changing to SS brake lines and upgrading to DOT4 fluid on my '03 Z06 since I autocross.
I went to a dealership and got an estimate of $350 (with me providing the lines and fluid). The Tech (20+ years working on vettes) said that to go to DOT4 I would need to change all the brake system components. This didn't sound right to me since I have seen many posts here about going to DOT 4 and never heard about anyone changing all the components. Anyway, does this sound like a high price?
Is is possible for me to change the lines myself? I have never done anything with brakes (never even changed my own pads). I am very machanically inclined, but I just don't really know what to do. If I did change the lines but decided to stay with DOT3 do I still have to bleed the lines or do an entire flush? If so, then I should just replace with DOT4 correct? Does anyone have a link to step by step instructions for this entire proceedure with pictures? Like I said, I think I could do it, if I had the right information and tools.
Thanks in advance,
Piranha
07-28-2004, 10:21 AM
#2
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I have heard the same thing, that the system is not going to work with 4 or pure synthetic. I have done some research and came up with this.
Castrol is #1
Motul 600 #2
pick one you will be okay, I choose Motul 600 and have be running with ss line and mod brakes for over a year (no problems) and I do DE and autocrossing...
Castrol is #1
Motul 600 #2
pick one you will be okay, I choose Motul 600 and have be running with ss line and mod brakes for over a year (no problems) and I do DE and autocrossing...
07-28-2004, 10:31 AM
#3
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As for changing the lines, here you go...
lift car, whole car or front or rear first...doesn't matter.
take wheels off.
loosen cap on brake system, (don't let it run low)
pinch brake line with clamping plyers (so they lock on the line)
remove line from caliper.
attach new line to caliper.
remove line quickly from hard line and attach new quickly
(fluid will not gush out is will only drip very slow)
do the rest of the car and don't forget to watch the system so that it doesn't run low, it should not if you everything is done right)
then bleed system manually 02 and up is RR,LF,LR,RF and 01 back is traditional way.
this will work and it is not to complicated, but if you mess up on the bleeding process, you can pull air into the ABS system and that my friend means a trip to the Dealer to get them to use the tech 2 system to bleed the ABS (the only way)
lift car, whole car or front or rear first...doesn't matter.
take wheels off.
loosen cap on brake system, (don't let it run low)
pinch brake line with clamping plyers (so they lock on the line)
remove line from caliper.
attach new line to caliper.
remove line quickly from hard line and attach new quickly
(fluid will not gush out is will only drip very slow)
do the rest of the car and don't forget to watch the system so that it doesn't run low, it should not if you everything is done right)
then bleed system manually 02 and up is RR,LF,LR,RF and 01 back is traditional way.
this will work and it is not to complicated, but if you mess up on the bleeding process, you can pull air into the ABS system and that my friend means a trip to the Dealer to get them to use the tech 2 system to bleed the ABS (the only way)
07-28-2004, 12:04 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
DOT 4 and 5.1 are both OK. The fluid to avoid is DOT 5 which is made from silicone. DOT 5 is good for motorcycles, racing karts, boat trailers, and antique cars because it does not absorb moisture of harm paint. It is also slightly compressible and therefore not compatible with antilock brake systems.
Some brake fluids that will work well in a C5:
Motul 600
Castrol Racing
Delphi (formerly Lockheed) 5.1
Ford Heavy Duty
Valvoline Syntec
I used to use the Delphi 5.1 until I ran out one day and was forced to use the Valvoline in a pinch. The Valvoline worked just as well so now I use it and save the $12 per quart. You should change the fluid at least once per year and every other track day to maintain peak brake performance. Changing the lines is no big deal, but unless you want the looks there is no benefit to the SS lines over the OEM C5 lines. I had SS lines until one of them went bad. I put the OEM lines back on and there was no change in "on-track" performance.
When changing the lines you must replace the copper washers in the caliper banjo fittings every time they are taken apart.
As for bleeding/flushing the fluid, I used to worry about getting air into the ABS control module, but after removing it to change a power steering pump I found out that there is no problem with air as long as the ignition is kept off while air is in the system. I now open the bleed screws and gravity drain all of the brake fluid to change it. I then fill the reservoir with clean new fluid and use a magnetic "one-person" bleeding bottle and pump the pedal starting with the right rear, then left rear, then right front, then left front, then repeat to make sure no air is left in the lines.
Disclaimer: I am not recommending any repair method or course of action; I am only relating my personal experience. Brakes are the most important system on your car for safety. Be sure you are prepared to accept the liability for working on them yourself before you do so.
Some brake fluids that will work well in a C5:
Motul 600
Castrol Racing
Delphi (formerly Lockheed) 5.1
Ford Heavy Duty
Valvoline Syntec
I used to use the Delphi 5.1 until I ran out one day and was forced to use the Valvoline in a pinch. The Valvoline worked just as well so now I use it and save the $12 per quart. You should change the fluid at least once per year and every other track day to maintain peak brake performance. Changing the lines is no big deal, but unless you want the looks there is no benefit to the SS lines over the OEM C5 lines. I had SS lines until one of them went bad. I put the OEM lines back on and there was no change in "on-track" performance.
When changing the lines you must replace the copper washers in the caliper banjo fittings every time they are taken apart.
As for bleeding/flushing the fluid, I used to worry about getting air into the ABS control module, but after removing it to change a power steering pump I found out that there is no problem with air as long as the ignition is kept off while air is in the system. I now open the bleed screws and gravity drain all of the brake fluid to change it. I then fill the reservoir with clean new fluid and use a magnetic "one-person" bleeding bottle and pump the pedal starting with the right rear, then left rear, then right front, then left front, then repeat to make sure no air is left in the lines.
Disclaimer: I am not recommending any repair method or course of action; I am only relating my personal experience. Brakes are the most important system on your car for safety. Be sure you are prepared to accept the liability for working on them yourself before you do so.
Last edited by adamsocb; 07-28-2004 at 07:07 PM.
07-28-2004, 12:08 PM
#5
Instructor
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Fluids like ATE Superblue and Motul are DOT4 fluids, but NOT synthetic. Only synthetic fluids will cause a problem with the system. You definitely want to stay away from those, but they are DOT5, not DOT4. Your mechanic must be confusing the two. $350 does seem kind of high, considering it should only be about 2 hours or maybe 3 max if they do the full electronic and manual bleeding procedures.
Mike
Mike
07-28-2004, 12:38 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by adamsocb
DOT 4 and 5.1 are both OK. The fluid to avoid is DOT 5 which is made from silicone. DOT 5 is good for motorcycles, racing karts, boat trailers, and antique cars because it does not absorb moisture of harm paint. It is also slightly compressible and therefore not compatible with antilock brake systems.
Some brake fluids that will work well in a C5:
Motul 600
Castrol Racing
Delphi (formerly Lockheed) 5.1
Ford Heavy Duty
Valvoline Syntec
I used to use the Delphi 5.1 until I ran out one day and was forced to use the Valvoline in a pinch. The Valvoline worked just as well so now I use it and save the $12 per quart. You should change the fluid at least once per year and every other track day to maintain peak brake performance. Changing the lines is no big deal, but unless you want the looks there is no benefit to the SS lines over the OEM C5 lines. I had SS lines until one of them went bad. I put the OEM lines back on and there was no change in "on-track" performance.
When changing the lines you must replace the copper washers in the caliper banjo fittings every time they are taken apart.
As for bleeding/flushing the fluid, I used to worry about getting air into the ABS control module, but after removing it to change a power steering pump I found out that there is no problem with air as long as the ignition is kept off while air is in the system. I now open the bleed screws and gravity drain all of the brake fluid to change it. I then fill the reservoir with clean new fluid and use a magnetic "one-person" bleeding bottle and pump the pedal starting with the right rear, then left rear, then right front, then left front, then repeat to make sure no air is left in the lines.
[b]Disclaimer: I am not recommending any repair method or course of action; I am only relating my personal experience. Brakes are the most important system on your car for safety. Be sure you prepared to accept the liability for working on them yourself before you do so.[b]
Some brake fluids that will work well in a C5:
Motul 600
Castrol Racing
Delphi (formerly Lockheed) 5.1
Ford Heavy Duty
Valvoline Syntec
I used to use the Delphi 5.1 until I ran out one day and was forced to use the Valvoline in a pinch. The Valvoline worked just as well so now I use it and save the $12 per quart. You should change the fluid at least once per year and every other track day to maintain peak brake performance. Changing the lines is no big deal, but unless you want the looks there is no benefit to the SS lines over the OEM C5 lines. I had SS lines until one of them went bad. I put the OEM lines back on and there was no change in "on-track" performance.
When changing the lines you must replace the copper washers in the caliper banjo fittings every time they are taken apart.
As for bleeding/flushing the fluid, I used to worry about getting air into the ABS control module, but after removing it to change a power steering pump I found out that there is no problem with air as long as the ignition is kept off while air is in the system. I now open the bleed screws and gravity drain all of the brake fluid to change it. I then fill the reservoir with clean new fluid and use a magnetic "one-person" bleeding bottle and pump the pedal starting with the right rear, then left rear, then right front, then left front, then repeat to make sure no air is left in the lines.
[b]Disclaimer: I am not recommending any repair method or course of action; I am only relating my personal experience. Brakes are the most important system on your car for safety. Be sure you prepared to accept the liability for working on them yourself before you do so.[b]
With the exception of the MC comment. Dot 5 sucks for bikes as well! 
07-28-2004, 01:29 PM
#7
Heel & Toe
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Dot 4
I have changed the F&R rotors+F&R Pads+ S/S bralke lines+Dot 4 Motul 600.
Dot 4 is not a problem at all.As alreday stated above only with Dot 5 You could have problem.
I'm pretty sure the amount it's wrong:ceck it from variuos vendors .
I got mine from Stoptech....
For Your info I drive also for autocrossing in Monza
Regards
chevyc5ls1
Dot 4 is not a problem at all.As alreday stated above only with Dot 5 You could have problem.
I'm pretty sure the amount it's wrong:ceck it from variuos vendors .
I got mine from Stoptech....
For Your info I drive also for autocrossing in Monza
Regards
chevyc5ls1
07-28-2004, 02:22 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by Dan_the_C5_Man
With the exception of the MC comment. Dot 5 sucks for bikes as well!
07-28-2004, 04:29 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
I had someone tell me the same thing about DOT4 fluid a while back and for some reason i listened to him. Since i started going to road coursed, I haven't had anything else in the car and wouldn't put DOT3 in the car even if some one paid me for it. SS lines are on my to do list because i think that is where the weak link in my breaks are now. Avoid the DOT 5 stuff, but DOT4 is great.
I'll e-mail you the section of the repair manual that deals with breaks. After you do it once, it's easy. Also, if you are going to be working on your brakes often i highly recomend speed bleeders. It takes me longer to lift my car than it does to bleed the breaks w/ speedbleeders
I'll e-mail you the section of the repair manual that deals with breaks. After you do it once, it's easy. Also, if you are going to be working on your brakes often i highly recomend speed bleeders. It takes me longer to lift my car than it does to bleed the breaks w/ speedbleeders
07-28-2004, 10:53 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
Doug,
I am not a big fan of SS lines. You might be disappointed with the results. (or lack of)
Having said that, I will help you with the install. I have done 3 sets. Not difficult at all.
Dave
I am not a big fan of SS lines. You might be disappointed with the results. (or lack of)
Having said that, I will help you with the install. I have done 3 sets. Not difficult at all.
Dave
07-29-2004, 03:20 AM
#11
Racer
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FOr what it's worth, the SUPER BLUE is fantastic, as well as the Ford Heavy Duty. I use them both for this reason. As you are flushing with either one, it is VERY easy to tell when the old is out and the new is in! I have also been able to boil the Castrol but it was about 9 months old. Worked well up until then
07-29-2004, 03:29 AM
#12
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by Piranha
Hey all,
I am interested in changing to SS brake lines .....
I am interested in changing to SS brake lines .....
07-29-2004, 10:17 AM
#13
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SS Brake Line Install
I installed SS lines awhile back and didn't have the instructions and put them on incorrectly. They rubbed the wheels on turns. Turns out they are mounted so that the bends run vertical. Once I made that adjustment everything was fine.
07-29-2004, 12:36 PM
#14
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The Below is BS But It Comes From A GM Site
Owners of some Corvettes have experienced Service ABS, Service Active Handling and Service Traction Control messages. Wheel speed sensor codes may be set. This condition may be caused by replacing the OEM rubber brake hoses with aftermarket stainless steel brake hoses.
It is believed that the metal in the brake lines conducts static electricity, causing confusion in the wheel speed sensors.
The brake hoses must be returned to original rubber ones before the case can be investigated. This is a customer-pay expense.
It is believed that the metal in the brake lines conducts static electricity, causing confusion in the wheel speed sensors.
The brake hoses must be returned to original rubber ones before the case can be investigated. This is a customer-pay expense.
07-29-2004, 12:39 PM
#15
Safety Car
If you want to avoid codes, get some shrink tube and wrap the lines before installing. I did this on mine (Goodridge lines) and never got a single code. 
07-29-2004, 02:53 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Dan_the_C5_Man
With the exception of the MC comment. Dot 5 sucks for bikes as well! I believe Harley-Davidson uses DOT 5, but almost all other bikes, especially sport bikes, use DOT 3 or 4. This is only one more reason that H-Ds are generally poor performers.
07-29-2004, 03:30 PM
#17
Safety Car
Originally Posted by Duck916
I believe Harley-Davidson uses DOT 5, but almost all other bikes, especially sport bikes, use DOT 3 or 4. This is only one more reason that H-Ds are generally poor performers.
My Harley FXR can do stoppies and I'm running DOT 5 fluid.
07-29-2004, 03:59 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by dmtnt
My Harley FXR can do stoppies and I'm running DOT 5 fluid. for that! I still don't like the brake feel that DOT 5 gives and I don't care for Harleys, but if you can do a stoppie on that bike, that's very impressive.This is yet more proof it's the rider, not the bike.
