theoUK

I'm thinking of installing a four speed in my 80, and at the moment I want to work out whether it will be cheaper to just get an "out of the box" unit from somewhere like Bowtie, or to find a tired old box and build it myself. So I need to find out what's involved in doing a rebuild on one of these things, to let it take a bit more power..
I've just ordered the haynes GM autobox repair manual, which I'm sure will give just the stock rebuild procedures. There are hundreds of books about beefing up your short block or your heads for higher power applications, but can anyone recommend a good one for the 700/200 Auto boxes??
Even if I do go with a supplied unit, a book like that would make interesting reading anyway, I think.
Cheers!

comp

going to try one later

427V8

Got to turbobuick.com then to the transmission forums.

Thats the place to learn.

Schmucker

http://www.ptsnctb.com/images%5C../f...q.asp?faq_id=4
Rebuild and do this procedure. I don't think there are any books available.

comp

it ain't right got 2 do 350's and want a 200r4
to do right after... know how if your in a mind set,, want to put the
200 in my truck with a 383 to test my work

442olds

Unfortunately by the time you buy all the high po parts for either the 200 or the 700 you will have spent the same amount in parts as it would cost to get the transmission built by the "pro's" at a place like BowTie Overdrives. Unless you already have a good transmission core and a rebuild kit. But there is machining to be done to the internals to accept more clutches in the various clutch packs, you have to buy the hardened input shaft, stator support, and other hardened goodies if you want it to last behind anything with a good amount of torque. I rebuilt my first 200, never again will I attemp one of those. It scraped the one way roller sprag about 10,000 miles after the rebuild with a weak 350 (maybe 250 hp at the crank). I didn't replace that part. Didn't know it needed to be replaced, it looked ok so I reused it. There's lots of things like that, that unless you know what a bad one looks like that you might end up reusing it and cause yourself a lot of headaches later.

350's are easy parts are cheap and they can take the abuse, but for some reason its cousin the 700/4l60/4l60e have some internal design changes that make them less than capable of any real power without a lot of aftermarket help.

Best of luck, and do some price comparisons. Add up every hardened, go fast, upgrade part BoeTie or Art Carr has to offer and then look at the price of the transmission as a whole. I bet they are within about $100 of each other.

joe73vette

I've been collecting info on this same thing. I think I just might get the BTO 700 for peace of mind. I have read they are fickle to rebuild. But there are excellent books out there from ASTG and Haynes, as well as website help. Joe

When rebuilding plan on addressing the following:
All new seals and gaskets.
New - and I would get high performance - friction material in all the clutch packs.
Replace the TCC solenoid (easier now than later).
A high performance pump.
Larger servo.
A larger boost valve.
Change the governor to get you higher shift points (especially if you get a truck transmission).
A pan with a drain plug and then put a temp gage on it.

Look at the Trans Go rebuild kit for a starter. Here is some more info to look at.
http://www.drivetrain.com/700R4_eautotrans/700R4.html
http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticles/63498/
http://www.tciauto.com/service_kits/
http://www.transmissionhead.com/
http://www.200raptor.com/
http://www.2004rperformancecenter.com/

Replace the servos with either Corvette servos or those made by companies like B&M / TCI / Bow Tie Overdrives. Same for the boost valve. Get one that will let the transmission upshift from 3rd to 4th at full throttle and won't down shift 4-3 until 2/3rds throttle. A new / improved pump is a must as well. Plan on putting a Trans Go shift improver kit in whatever you get.

You should get the Haynes manual. This has pictures of every step in a rebuild. As far as I can tell the only special tool needed is a spring compressor (which you can make yourself). And bushing tools if you are going to replace bushings (also possible to make). The ATSG manuals are also good as a reference, but don't have all the pictures.

The experts at thirdgen.org recommend to install these parts:
TransGo shift and pump kit (the shiftkit solves the stuck TV problem among others), 4L60E 3-4 pack and input sprag assy, (they seems to prefer Borg Warner clutches), teflon front bushing, Corvette rear planetary gear and new GM Sun Shell, Corvette 2-4band servo, .500 TV boost valve, .296 PR boost valve. Minimum endplay settings. Aux cooler (bypass radiator).

You should look at the different options at the probuilt website http://www.pro-built.net
http://www.transonline.com is the best source I've found for rebuild information.
And there is a lot of info in the thirdgen.org archives.

You can get a new tailhousing for the 700R that has a mount that is in the same position as your 400, you may have to elongate the holes on your crossmember appx. 1/2 inch but it fits. These tailhousings can be bought from Pheonix Transmission Products http://www.phoenixtrans.com/html/newproducts.html and are called a Caprice Extension and run $38.00. This eliminates the need for modifying your crossmember or buying aftermarket one. You'll still have to shorten drive shaft appx 3 inches

comp

nothing dead up like a 350T

theoUK

Guys,
thanks a lot for taking the time to put down all that info. This thread is being saved

442olds, I was planning on doing like you say and basically making a shopping list. If everything turns out to cost close to a Bowtie, then it might be as well to go with them. One thing that is a concern is the fact that I'm in the UK. If i can find a decent core unit over here, I'll be saving myself shipping of, well, I guess a couple hundred bucks. 700r4 would be easier to find here than a 200 4r...
By the way, I know the 700 was the vette box through the 80's, but what cars were fitted with the 2004r? I've read Buicks??
Cheers again - I'm off to do some reading!

mrvette

The Monte carlo had the 200 in it, and is the one to find, watch the bellhousing patterns though...gotta be a 'universal' shell or chebby pattern, not the BOP pattern....

the prices on parts may indeed be as high as a 'pro built 'unit, but one thing, at least THAT way you KNOW you got ALL the good stuff in there, and job done right, not some questionalbe unit that may or may not be built right.....much less the shipping, as you say......

GENE

UKPaul

Hi Theo,
Don't think I mentioned this, but Bowtie used a shipping company that delivered the whole lot to Ipswich for just over £200. I think an option was to have Liverpool as the destination, which might be easier for you. If you source a trans in the US yourself it would be worth calling Steve at Moving It as he specialises in importing car parts. The trans was in a decent wooden crate & can be lifted by one person easily. I had a mate pick it up from the docks in his van, but needn't have wasted his time as I later transported the entire thing on the rear seat of my old Granada.
Judging by what you were quoted for that 700, & the amount of work & parts required to beef it up, it may work out more economical (& less of a headache) to buy a prepped one from somebody like Bowtie. If you want I could dig out all my reciepts & tell you exactly how much it cost me to upgrade (but I'd rather not ). It was about the same as I was/am planning to spend on some decent heads, but I've no regrets whatsoever in getting an OD trans instead of a set of heads, the improvement in driveability is far better than having another 50ish hp (apart from anything, new heads would have just made it more obvious how undergeared it was with the stock Th350). Also, the fuel savings when cruising at decent speeds are really noticeable, a trip to the Nats with the Th350 used a full tank + about 1/4 of the next fill up (if you trust the fuel guage). With the 200-4r I've done that journey twice using 3/4 tank for the entire round trip each time. With what we're paying for fuel, if you plan on keeping the Vette & do a lot of miles in it, the trans could pay for itself in a few years. I'm not trying to talk you into buying one(!), but the only negative thing I can think of is the initial outlay (& the way things tend to snowball when you do the installation!).
If you decide not to go the OD route, it might be worth seeing if you can get hold of a used TH350C over here. Couple that with a (2200rpm stall) locking converter & your cruising rpms will drop by about 300 when the converter locks. It's not a lot, but I really noticed an increased craving for fuel when my locking converter stopped locking. In fact, the extra fuel costs made me, after I'd given up trying to fix it, go out & spend a bundle of money on a 200-4r. I think it's one of my better decisions
Good luck

theoUK

Gene, seems like you're a man after my own heart - I often only trust myself to do stuff! But I'll admit when something's beyond me and I know Bowtie have a good rep - even so, I'm still sure I can handle a rebuild myself. What it all boils down to is how much the DIY route is going to cost, and before I can price it out I'm going to spend a few spare hours researching exactly what I want out of this.. 200/700 which car it came from, can I find a wrecked one in the UK etc etc

Paul - was that shipping air or sea?? Hang on, I've just read "docks" so if it was sea, how long did it take?
If i do go down the "beef it up myself" route, I'm going to want a much cheaper core than 700 quid. I've been trying to find out if there are any US car breakers in the UK, where I might just find an old Buick sitting at the bottom of a pile of cars... You never know(!) Do you know of any such breakers?