80TexasC3

I need some advise on what route to take with a project I'm starting to plan (and save for) this next winter. My 1980 definitely needs more Hp so should I:

(1) Keep the stock matching numbers block and have it bored and stroked (64cc heads & 268 xtreme energy cam)

or

(2) Purchase a crate motor


The ultimate issue in my mind is if I should keep the matching numbers car/block or consider that 1980 will most likely not become a collector and appreciate any significant amount. So, save money and go with the crate engine.

Thanks in advance for the input...

Z-man

I thought about this a lot when I started my project. (You left out another option which I took - have a local builder build an engine for you so you have someone to back up the guarantee personally).

Anyway, the "ball park" cost for rebuilding your current block and purchasing a crate engine is about the same. So I am just going to park the numbers matching block for some future Vette lover and go with my new engine. I was able to work with the builder and say "yea" or "nay" on most internals and still beat the crate builders on price (but not time).

For reference, a small block Chevy block is only worth about $150 bucks. To do it right, everything else should be replaced (IMO).

Let us know what you decide...

comp

my vote.. if you have the $ and the space sit the org. in the corner of the shop.... get and beat-up the other engine

Jeo

about a year and a half ago my dad and I went through this delema we decided to have someone rebuild the engine on our 75 and now it makes 435 hp and 455 tq for about the same price as a similar crate motor. the reason we chose this is because I heard somewhere that Chevys crate motors are good but some of the internals are not great so we wanted someone we could turn to if something ever happens. -Jeo

comp

i haven't heard that about New "true" GM crate's

i885744

rebuild the stock motor. Nobody wants to open the hood of a car and see ANOTHER crate motor. Go to any hot rod event and count the amount of crate motors you see. Crate motors bore me. I'd get the stock motor built.

AGVI

In the end only you will know what to do.
Everyone here will vote 50/50 on the crate/rebuild debate.

MotorHead

No ficken way would I buy a crate motor, you are looking for trouble as far as I am concerned. They can throw anything they want in there, sure it's a forged crank...turned 30/30 after a lifetime on the drag strip. One guy here bought a crate motor and the rods hit the block when he fired it up, the block or pan were not clearanced properly. How many times did they turn that motor over when they assembled it ? I'd say less than once. Now he has to tear it out of the car and ship it across the country. I might consider a GM crate motor with a warranty but even then all they have to say is "You must have over revved it"

Get a local engine builder to build you what you want, 350ci blocks are $150 and work with him to put in the parts you want.

1970-Bronze

I just went through this and finally decided to have a motor built.

Pull the original and put in in the corner.

Glensgages

Choice is entirely up to you; only YOU know what YOU want from your car.

You can probably build a good, torquey 383" SBC on your own, with 'decent' parts for a lot cheaper than you could buy a ZZ502, my personal favorite crate-motor.

You can get 502-like HP-numbers from a 383" SBC, but very doubtful that you'll get the big TQ numbers (567 ft/lbs on the ZZ502).

The 383 will likely get better fuel-mileage (probably) than a 502, and have more ability to turn higher RPM;
on the other hand, the 502 makes lotsa 'grunt', and doesn't need RPM to 'prove-it's-point', which'll eventually wear-out a motor.

The 383" will allow use of parts that are already there (headers, belts & pulleys, etc.), and keep the weight off the nose, but a 383" SBC, making 500 HP, is almost at 'the end' of it's evolutionary developement, and probably won't be very streetable;
the ZZ502 weighs more, and would require new 'add-ons', but is just 9.6:1 CR, which'll run on pump-gas, and it offers a building-block for a 'serious' future build-up with a 4-bolt/4.470"-bore block, large valve aluminum heads, and a dual-plane intake;
adding a 4.250"-stroke crank and pistons, you're looking at a 533" Rat.

I didn't help you decide at-all, did I?

VegasJen

next year will be the silver anniversary for your car, keep that in mind.
i'd vote for crate motor but ultimately, it depends on what you want to do. sounds like the combination you've planned would be equal to what a crate motor would cost for about the same money.
do you want the pride of telling people you built it yourself with no recourse if something fails? or do you want all the power with a warranty and the simplicity and time savings of just having the other engine there when the original comes out?
you forgot option #3. that is if you want to do it yourself but don't want to risk the numbers matching block, find yourself a "seasoned" block that you can build yourself. machine shops often times will have blocks that people have dropped off as their project and then abandoned. just a thought.
keep us posted

81ZZ4

I would begin with a crate block at the very least...Decide how much you want to build it up...what you want out of it.

Keep the Orig on a stand...clean it up and detail it.
Always nice to do on a rainy day or winter months.

Anyone can drop a block off to a machine shop and have some one rebuild it's. no major accomplishment. So dont let anyone tell you crates are boring...and they are all NEW from pan to intake from a good company.

panchop

went thru the same thing. decided to build my own. sure it will cost the same as a crate if not more but i bought this car as a hobby. and it surley is that. besides can't think of a better way toget to know the thing.originial engine and tranny will sit in a nice corner of the garage soon..

Budman68

LS1 or ZZ4.

TRUE-DUALS

Go with a ZZ4. You will never get as much bang for your buck

Taijutsu

After 95K on a 327 w/TFS heads I knew what i wanted in my next engine, more midrange/top end w/o loss of low end. I had my block rebuilt w/forged pistons, 6"rods, steel crank, 270 HR cam and ARP fasteners. Toped off w/Air Gap, TFS heads pocket ported and valves backcut and 650 Demon. I can't wait to get this on dyno.
The smartest thing I did was have 1 shop do everything! A turn key installation. That way they have to warrenty the whole job. At the same time I had the front end rebuilt w/poly. I have been very happy w/combo. Right now my car is getting rewired. PITA

Rick

Ak. Mal

Here's my vote

Seriously, I'd build that sombitch myself. That is what I plan to do. My rebuild is slated for winter 06. I'm gonna take it to the bare block, have it cleaned up and build it myself. Of course, it doesn't hurt that my father in law who is a lifetime mechanic will be helping/teaching.

Disco_Mike

I had this discussion with my neighbor. He is a machinist and itching to add a few ponies to my vette. (at my expense of course)

I mentioned just getting a stroker crank. He mentioned the block work that would need done.

I mentioned starting with a bare block. He recomended 1 or 2 short blocks w/just the rolling assembly. If you want, I can get the recomended names.

Jeff's Classics

First recomendation, don't risk your original block unless you beef up the bottom end (forged rods and main studs). This is my original numbers matching block with a 268H cam and a 6000 RPM rev limiter:
http://users2.ev1.net/~jeffsclassics...ough%20pan.jpg

While I also love the ZZ502 I dynoed my freshly built 383" on Friday. We did all the pulls on 93 octane pump gas, and it has a roller cam so it should be VERY streetable. The engine made over 450 ft-lbs from 3500, where we started pulling to 5000 RPM. Peak was 480 at around 4000 RPM, average was 448 ft-lbs. HP was 454 at 5500 RPM, average was 407. Not quite par with the 502, but this is a lighter, cheaper engine, especially if someone is already starting with a small block car.

I wouldn't buy a crate engine unless it was from GM. I have a great engine builder here in Houston, if you find a good shop it is more fun to build your own. I sourced a good standard bore high nickel block, which took awhile, and he bought the reciprocating assembly and did the build up.

Kevin Mason

I agree. Either buy GM (nationwide warranty and service) or better yet, buy local (that way you have the builder nearby if something goes wrong or is not as advertised).

Do NOT go crate motor hunting ("I found a 383 with 420 HP for $3400 - is that a good deal??") on the internet. For one thing, horsepower is cheap - strength and quality machine work are what cost money, and those things can't be measured so easily.

I know, some people have gotten good crate motors via internet. Some people have not. Ya pays your money and ya takes yer chances.