UKPaul

What's happened to the forum? Am I in the right place?!
Sorry about this repetitive type thread, but I can't find any info with a search (it's yet another "What's the best Head" thread).
I'd decided on AFR180 Heads a while ago, but for various reasons am now looking at the alternatives. So what's peoples view on the TFS 23deg heads (64cc chamber, 195cc intakes)? They're advertised as a simple swap for stock heads, but are custom push rod lengths required?
Sig should say what's been done to the otherwise stock engine. Rear end is 2.87 but the low 1st gear on the Th200 will compensate a bit. Just want "normal" street use, may occasionally drag it once "finished" & am mainly interested in mid-range get-up-and-go as opposed to good off the line figures. It'd also be nice to surprise the plethora of TVRs around here So waddya guys think? Are they a good alternative to AFR180's? Comparable performance with the cam, etc I'm using? And any idea what CR the 64cc ones would give with stock pistons & a thin head gasket (I have to use octane booster with all my other vehicles, so one more won't hurt if it needs it!)? I'm assuming that 195 ports won't cause me any restrictions in the future if I ever get a lumpier cam fitted? Also, money is an "issue" as ever, so exotic stuff is a nono.
Thanks people
OK, can't find my sig! Here's the main parts of the current build:
Performer intake, computer control of carb & dist, 1.52:1 roller tipped rockers, Crane CompuCam .440"/.454" 210/216 @ .050" lsa 114, Dynomax 1 5/8" Headers into true 2 1/2" duals with "H", mufflers that don't, 200-4r, 2200 stall, no EGR, EFE or Cat, modified advance curve & stock E4ME Q-jet upjetted for exhaust (thanks to Lars for the info on that ).

GaryS

Read Troy's post at the beginning. Things will take some time to work out. Why no signature I can't answer.
Gary

VegasJen

hey paul, i visited the trick flow booth as well as a few other manufacturers last year at SEMA. i was really impressed with their product. just looking at the "as cast" finish is pretty damn impressive. the castings are so clean that you could do-it-yourself street port/polish them in just an hour or two. the quality is way better than anything the factory ever put out and the as cast numbers aren't that far off the AFR advertised numbers after they do all the work. IF i decide to go with aluminum heads, i will probably be buying the trick flows.
as for pushrod length, i think your going to have to talk to them. i'm sure they have a tech e-mail thingy on their website. have you found a site for them? maybe someone else has used them and can tell you. you might also post this question over in 'engine mods'.
keep us updated on your decision.

Fevre

FYI Most afermarket heads have pushrod guides so you will need new pushrods no matter what heads you choose, TFS has a pushrod guide chart on their website but it is recomended you check them before settling on a set. I just used their guide and rockers where dead on.

Gator81

Hey, Paul! I see the pound is up to a buck-eighty-five. Is that enough to make you get off the dime and order up a set of heads?

Love my TFS heads. They're the "twisted wedge" variety, which I hardly ever see any more. Makes me wonder if there's some awful disaster waiting to happen with them that has caused TFS to stop making them... But their fit, finish, and machine work quality were wonderfully impressive when new (9 years ago! ). And absolutely solid performers, trouble-free, since then. Standard length pushrods were fine. I did upgrade from stock Chevy-type rockers to 1.52 Comp-Cams roller tips, like yours, and they came with guides, which had to be adjusted slightly after installation of the roller tip rockers. Couldn't be happier with them. Just need to open up the exhaust system enough to let them breathe!

UKPaul

Thanks for the replies.
Clutchdust: Thanks. I'm happy with polishing ports up from a cast finish, it's when metal needs removing that I get nervous! I've found their website & also Summit have just told me that rod length should be 7.800". Obviously I'll check them, but if there's a possibility that I'll need custom lengths then it'll have an effect on when I fit them, as there'll be delays while waiting for them to arrive ie. do I fit them soon after I get them, or wait until winter when being off the road for 3 or 4 weeks doesn't matter?
Fevre: Thanks for the warning. I actually planned ahead for this & fitted a set of hardened pushrods when I fitted new rockers.
Gator: Good to see you back Yup $1.85, how good is that?!!! The result of the exchange rate is that I can now get a set of TFS heads from the US a lot cheaper than I could buy a pair of Performer heads here (approx £530 compared to over £1000 for the Edel!!!), so I'm keen to get moving on this (just need my back-pay to arrive :mad ). Things might be very different after import duty, tax & shipping get added on....
I've been looking out for Twisted Wedge heads out of curiosity, but have only ever seen them listed for F*rds. The TFS23 have always looked good to me, but I was wanting some AFR's so didn't take much notice of them. Now that I've changed my mind I'm just looking for any installation pitfalls (like needing different pushrods which'll take a while to arrive, along with yet another demand for money by Customs), or peoples comments, such as wishing they'd got the CNC'd chamber version, etc.

tsw71

I just bought a pair of the TFS 23deg last weekend from local forum member Terry Ruddy. I pulled several valves to check the surface of the bowls. Very nice castings! There is a very small spot of casting flash in the same intake runner on each head. I still have not decided if I'll clean it up or leave as is. The only disappointment is that they did not have a multiangle valve job. Even my current S/R torquers came with a 3 angle valve, although that may be the only reason the S/R's work as well as they do. I sent the trick flows out to get a 3 angle vale job, so it won't be an issue anymore.
I'm not sure about the pushrod length either, but I guess we'll both find out soon enough. I should have mine back together by the end of the month if time allows.
You mentioned using thin head gaskets. I'll be running the .015" steel shim gaskets. Be sure to sand the head very smooth if you're are using these.

UKPaul

Oops, I missed out there then! Are the valves the reduced diameter type (I think you guys call them "undercut": where the diameter is reduced in the area just above the head)? I was meaning to ask about a 3-angle valve job, I guess that also means that the valves don't have a cut on them either?
Personally I'd clean up the casting flash as I've found that it can make quite a difference in running. Don't know about power increase figures, but some engines that I've cleaned up head ports on seem to run a little bit better afterwards, they just seem better mannered & smoother. Other engines feel no different at all, but nothing ventured, nothing gained
The steel shim gasket is what I intend to use. Will the heads need cleaning up if they're new? My only knowledge of alloy heads is from old m/cycles & is that if a new ally head is to be skimmed to raise CR, or have any sort of porting work done on it, then it should be fitted & used for a couple of thousand miles, as that's the time it'll warp/settle down. I'd guess the same would apply with car heads?
Be sure to post your impressions once you get it up & running. I may or may not even have mine by then, it all depends on $$$'s.

tsw71

The valves are undercut, but nothing like the Manly street flow valves that the S/R Torquer came with. I guess it's the lack of little things like that which make the TFS a bit more affordable.
You will definately need to sand the head gasket surface of the head to run steel shim.I spent about an hour sanding the iron S/R torquers with 180 grit, 400 grit and then 500. The aluminum will go much faster though. Don't forget to paint the head gaskets with either aluminum paint or the Permatex Copper spray that I use. It is something you MUST do.
As for the two intake runners, I think I'll take your advice to go ahead and clean them up. As you said, I've got nothing to lose. I'll post my before and after Gtech HP results when done. I'm really hoping it will be significant.

UKPaul

TSW,
Thanks for the reply, looking forward to hearing your opinion when it's finished.
Do you coat the gaskets to get a good seal, or to prevent the gaskets gluing themselves on? I use copper head gaskets between alloy heads & iron blocks & in 25 years I've never had one blow. Other people use composite gaskets (because they're "better") & over time they really weld themselves to the heads, I've even known somebody having to have the head fly-cut to get the remnants of the gasket off!

tsw71

The aluminum paint or copper is used to seal. It will help fill in any imperfection in the block or head. This is what I did last time around and the stuff seals very well and the gaskets come right off without leaving much. I did have to scrape small amounts of copper from the surfaces while getting it ready for the new heads, but not bad at all. I considered the copper head gasket, but I want maximum compression and steel shim is the only way to go for that.