Ben's75

I just pulled off both trailing arms today - I was pleasantly surprised by the lack of rust, and completely appalled by the lack of rubber left on the bushing :nonod:. It was truly amazing that the car would go in a straight line. Anyways, I have one arm stuck in a vise on my workbench, and I can't quite figure out how to remove the old bushing. I can see how the old parts correspond to the new, but there's a flared insert that runs through both halves that I am not sure what to do with. Should I drill it out? If so, how do I replace it? I don't know where I would get that piece, much less how to flare it again. Thanks in advance for the help...

Ben

turtlevette

you have to cut off the existing bushing with a cut off wheel or sallsall. I guess you could drill it out with a large bit.

i went with the urethane replacement. Here is a link to the rubber replacements. You also need a staking tool unless you get the urethane kit which comes with one.


http://www.madvet.com/shop?frame=4.1414


[Modified by turtlevette, 9:59 PM 5/16/2004]


[Modified by turtlevette, 11:37 PM 5/16/2004]

Ben's75

ttt

:nopity

Twin_Turbo

cut off the flared (staked?? is that what it's called?) end and then use an air chisel to hammer the bushing out. One thing, be carefull with the arm in the vise. They crush quite easily and the welds are not of too great a quality (you might want to add some welds on critical areas, factory really skimped there)

page62

How about melting 'em out with a blowtorch? (Note: Do this only in a WELL ventilated area!) :D

Tom454

I'm sure you guys already know this but I'll throw it out there just in case...


On a factory OEM style replacement rubber bushing-

When the new bushing is installed, the tube has to be flared over the replacement bevelled washer.

This cannot be done unless you first compress and hold the hard rubber bushing material.

The "staking tool" is designed to compress and hold the rubber while you flare the tube over the bevelled washer.

All tools are not created equal.... some of them bend in the process and make the job very difficult, some work really well. Depends on the source.




[Modified by Tom454, 10:12 AM 5/17/2004]

Ben's75

page62 - me + blowtorch = :banghead:. I don't even want to think about the kind of damage I'd do!

TT - Yeah, I've heard the same two terms. I'm not sure which is correct, but I think I get the general idea.

Tom454 - Never assume that I know anything :hat - I almost never do!

To all - I don't have a press, and the staking tool seems a little steep for a one-time tool. Am I better off taking the arms and new bushings down to a machine shop? How much should they charge to do it? Will I need to bring a "tube" too? That wasn't provided when I bought the four bushings.

Thanks for the responses,

Ben


[Modified by Ben's75, 2:15 PM 5/17/2004]

Ben's75

ttt

Tom454

I have both a 12 ton press and a 20 ton press... and I could not figure out a way to compress the washer/rubber while flaring the tube at the same time. The tube needs to be "flared", not "mashed". The press ram needs to be in the same place as the flaring tool.

The tool allows you to do this job without reinventing the wheel.

If someone figured out how to use a press and a flaring tip/screw for this.... using only standard shop tools and not "invented" additional tools.... I would be curious how it was done. If you have to spend countless hours trying to avoid buying the tool, then it's not cost effective.

Ben's75

yeah, there's no way I'd try to just "mash" it. I'm just trying to decide whether I should cough up $50 bucks for the tool, or just take it to a local machinist. I don't have enough experience with machine shops to know which would be cheaper either...

Ben

Tom454

Ben... I used to own & operate my own machine shop... and I don't have any tools that will do that job except for the special tool mentioned.

But... if I was still operating my shop commercially.... I would be embarassed to charge more than $10 to do something as simple as that. It only takes a couple of minutes.
I've done more complicated things for free or for a sodee-pop..

Tom

GTR1999

I made a tool for this and it is still a bugger to do. I have 2 5/8" steel plates that bolt together with 5/16-18 bolts. I drilled a hole in each plate and tapped them 3/4-10 I think- I'd have to dif it out and double check it. I used a socket head cap screw the same size as the tapped hole and turned the ends down to 45* angles with a short shoulder to fit the ID of the sleeve. I clamp the fixture in a bench vise and clamp the new bushing/T arm in the fixture to compress the rubber bushing. Them I use a long EMT tubing bend handle or 4" piece of 1.250 pipe to compress the sleeve by turning the screw into the end of the sleeve. It works but you really have to compress the rubber and have the flared end of the sleeve fully supported.
I don't know if a machine shop would have this setup so they might charge you to make one up.
Gary

turtlevette

guys its no big deal at all.

i just did one of mine saturday.

When you order the urethane bushing kit from mid america you get the flaring "tool" with it. Its nothing more than a bolt and a very small lugnut which flares the open end. It works great and only takes a few minutes.

don't bother to remove the outer steel bushing which press fits into the trailing arm. The new urething bushings just slip right in perfectly.

Ben's75

turtlevette - so you inserted the poly bushings, got them pressed into place in the trailing arm, THEN installed and flared the insert? I just want to make sure I have the right idea.

Ben

turtlevette

you take a C clamp and press the poly bushings into your existing outer steel sleeves. No need to replace the outer steel sleeves unless they are damaged or coroded. Then use the flaring tool to flare the inner steel bushing over a waher so it captures the urethane bushing. A 10 minute job. Easy as pie.

Tom454

Ben.... the urethane setup cannot be compressed and does not require compression like the factory rubber setup does. So... the installation procedure is different.

Keep in mind though that the urethane does not absorb any of the shock imparted by the engine via the drivetrain to propel the car forward. All of the impact is transmitted directly to the frame.

I have no opinion regarding this, but it should be kept in mind.

Ben's75

Tom454 - yeah, I'm planning on running rubber bushings all around. I don't want to risk trading my old rattles for new squeaks. I'm planning on calling a few machine shops today to find out about prices. I assume that they'll be able to supply the right pieces for the flared insert, right?

turtlevette - thanks for the info. That does sound easy. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be fortunate enough to have a 10 minute job...

Ben

Tom454

Ben- they'll have a flaring tool (several probably) and a press.... but most likely will not have a way to use both at the same time on the bushing. That's what I was trying to convey above. If they're creative, they may find an easy way to do it, but they will not be set up for the job. Tell them up front that you do not want it massacred. No sense doing all this work if they're going to muck it all up on you.

The problem is that they must install the special bevelled washer over the tube and then press down on ONLY the washer to compress the rubber far enough to get the required amount of tube exposure for a good flare. Then while the washer/rubber is compressed, they have to flare the tube over the washer. If the press ram is directly above the tube (compressing the washer/rubber) then there is no way to use a flaring tool to flare the tube. This is why they make a "special" tool for the job.

Read Gary's post above... see what he had to rig up to do the job. I couldn't cost justify all of that so I just bought the tool and was done with it.

Ben's75

Tom454 - thanks for the more in-depth explanation. Your first post was actually plenty clear, upon re-reading. I take it that the flaring tool would not be sufficient to compress the bushing WHILE flaring the tube? That's probably too much of a "hack." I've got a friend with a machine shop - if he can do it for significantly less than the cost of the tool, I'll take it to him. Otherwise, I'll just cough up for the tool.

Tom454

That's correct.... a standard "flaring tool" cannot be used to compress the bushing, especially while the tube is being flared.... they are two separate physical operations.