Vette X 3

I now know where all the wind noise is coming from on my new purchase...My collector's Edition rear hatch glass has about a 1/8-3/16" gap on one side between the moulding strip and then glass not at the top or the bottom, but at the sides of the glass. I wonder how great the fit was on these cars from day one??? The moulding strip looks like it was replaced as it is like new, but the seal at the sides is terrible. Looks to me like the entire glass is sitting too high at the top and about right at the bottom by the latches. Is there any way to basically shim between the upper hinges and the glass or is there any adjustment to lower the glass at the hinges?

I've read all the posts on the CF forum and there is much discussion of ill-fitting glass, but no solutions that have worked. The shop manual gives no clue.

Bill
'82 CE

Jasonty

Take off the hatch kit, sell it to me, permanently fix your glass. ;)

SuprJames

I kept fiddling with the shims at the top of the hinges and the metal pieces that the latch catches until I got mine to seal fairly well. No wind noise, but water still gets in a little if it blows at a certain angle. I still keep a towel shoved in the back if it looks like rain just in case.

I've heard that the hinges actually bend making them nearly impossible to seal. NOt sure how true that is. IF that's the case, then a fabricated set built out of something more durable would be about the only real fix.

Desertdawg

First off, we have a CE registry, get logged in, and you will find a bunch of other CE owners all crying about the same thing.

http://82ceregistry.com/82ce/index.htm
Become a member, and say hi!

Before you go searching for new hinges, there are none to be found ANYWHERE. Believe me, we have tried.

Yes the hinges stretch, this is the cause of you ill fitting rear window. right now there is a member there talking to a machinist about making us some hinges out of something more sturdy. get your name on the want list.

Vette X 3

Thanks for the response. I have read the threads on the CE registry on this topic and have heard of the hinge problem and the search for a "better hammer". What I was missing was if anyone found even a temporary fix or work-around. I guess the lack of a posting in that regard says that the solution is still elusive....but identified. I was hoping that GM was using hinges with shim packs as it must be a critical alignment even when everything is new. I'll post to the registry-Thanks.

Bill
'82 CE

Desertdawg

Bill, as you read on the CE registry, you can temporarily fix this by removing the hinges and putting them in a vise, SLOWLY squeeze the hinges back to the correct dimensions. plus about 1/4 inch, because they will spring back.

Some of the guys there are noticing that the more you do this procedure, the weaker the metal gets. Hopefully we can get together and come up with a better mousetrap.

wombvette

There are shims at the base of the hindge. You may have some luck adjusting those. I have also bent some of them back into shape. It works, but they are likely to stretch out again in the future. The aluminum, or whatever they are made of, is very malleable. Maybe they can be heat treated for strength. Any metallurgist out there?

Vette X 3

Actually, I am a metallurgist and work for a metals service center. Unfortunately, if they are aluminum and are of a heat treatable alloy, they would already be heat treated. If they are cast aluminum we are still SOL. I doubt they are 6061,7075, or 2024 (for example) alloy which are heat treatable, but would likely not deform in the first place. I tried shimming, but now believe as others do that they have stretched or elongated and allowed the glass to move rearward. If I had a "good" C-C measurement from a good hinge or one that was recently compressed back to a great fit (albeit short-lived) I could likely make a prototype from stainless cut on a plasma or laser. It wouldn't be pretty, but it outta work and last. If anyone has a benchmark dimension centerline of single hole to either set of holes at the hinge end, that would be a great reference to start from. Maybe I'll do slotted holes and just find the right spot since they won't bend when made of the right stuff. If I could just sell 6,000 sets.....

wombvette

I have some new ones. I can get you a dimension, but are you saying that they cannot be hardned? It would seem to me that something this flexible may not be a common casting material. Heck potmetal isnt this weak.

Desertdawg

If you have new ones, Please take all the measurements you can. please email them to me. If you can take a couple of pictures or toss together a drawing showing the dimensions that would be even better.

Remember, the CE was an experiment, they just wanted to test the hatch on an 82 for future use. Go look at a C4, the hatch is completely different. I think we can safely say, the experiment was sort of a failure as far as the hinges go.
The rest of the CE is perfect. :thumbs:

Vette X 3

Regarding heat treating.... Basically, only certain aluminum alloys are capable of being heat-treated. For our purposes, they are 2XXX, 6XXX, and 7XXX alloys. (ie. 2024,6061,7075 as examples). These would only be heat-treatable by us *if* they were in the "O" temper condition as-supplied....that being fully annealed. Then, you would be able to strengthen them by heat-treating. These alloys would never be spec'd in the dead-soft condition as that would defeat the purpose of GM paying top dollar for a heat-treatable alloy and then supplying them in a dead soft condition. Almost Zero chance iof this. More than likely if they are aluminum they are a casting of an alloy in the 3xxx,4xxx,5xxx family like 3003 or 5052 or just about any scrap-based alloy. These alloys get their strength through "work hardening" such as when they are mechanically rolled to a thinner and thinner gauge. This piece is a casting for sure and can not be strengthed in my opinion without making it brittle. This is what keeps the price down to the General. A heat treat alloy would start as a piece of plate and have to be CNC machined to make a shape like this and we are talking big bucks here. Whatever we all use can be made strong and functional without too much hassle, but the asthetics will always be a challenge unless someone takes up the common cause and writes the code for a 5 axis CNC milling machine.The part would then start life as round rod and milled to the final look. There may be a way to strengthen our hinges with a "girdle" or wire which acts to keep the hinge at the specifed spread. Hope I haven't bored everyone who reads this to tears, but maybe prompted some thinking...

Bill

zzyzx

"1981 Corvette Black on Black. The prostitute. I keep giving her money, she keeps screwing me."
:rofl:

wombvette

Thanks. I thought there might be a chance of heat treating them. But if that isnt possible, what do you think about brass or bronze castings? There are people that will do that very reasonably and It should be stronger. The critical measurement is just under 3" from center line to center line of the holes.

Desertdawg

Is that 3 inched pivot point to pivot point??????


We have a guy on the CE registry that is trying to find a new hinge to have some made, maybe you can log in and get with him to work something out.

So far, just about every CE owner I have ever talked to needs new hinges.

CE registry http://82ceregistry.com/82ce/index.htm

The thread about getting some hinges made.
http://www.82ceregistry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=140

I sure hope you can help, some of us are really in need of a replacement.


[Modified by Desertdawg, 4:41 PM 5/17/2004]

Vette X 3

Well, I took the rear glass off again several times this afternoon....put the hinges in a vice and squeezed them about 3/16" smaller C_C than they were. Must have done some good as the pins at the back are more centered in the pocket than nthey were before(all the way in the back of the pocket). However, I still have an air gap. I used all the slotted adjustmwnt and added two large washers as shims to lower the hinges and pull the glass down farther, but I have concluded unless new molding strip would be up higher, mine will never seal well and my molding is not brittle or worn by looking at it. I guess I won't know for sure unless I replace it. It really looks like if you could replace the molding strip and find a way to somehow place about 1/8" of shim beneath it before gluing it down, you'd have it. I wonder if any brands of replacement weather strip set up higher than others???? Anyone?

Wombvette, if you can verify the dimension....possibly a good way to do this would be to put the hinge in between vice jaws (NO, DON'T SQUEEZE!!) and rotate it back and forth until you have the largest gap possible between the vise jaws just barely touching both the knuckle and the foot....follow me? The largest gap the hinge can span outsdide to outside. Yes, it would be nice to have the C-C measurement, but it might be a guess. I don't have any books here at the house to tell me the tensile and yield strength of brass and bronze, but my guess is that bronze would be an ok choice. I still question the fit of the hatch gtlass under the best of hinge conditions...I'd like to see what a slightly taller molding strip could do combined with a better mousetrap for a hinge. We are going to solve this!

Bill

wombvette

If you draw an imaginary line through the C/L of the pivot hole and measure to the glass mount hole, it should be about 2 7/8 " I have never had any trouble getting the glass to fit when the hindges are good.

Vette X 3

Wombvette,

You are the man! Thanks for the info. I suspect given your success at sealing your hatch that your molding strip is better than mine or there is another force at work here. I shimmed, squeezed, and tugged to no great avail. Before starting, another reader stated his top leaked badly and he reported that there was 3/16" from the bottom edge of his glass to the paint and mine was likewise and also ill fitting. I now have about 5/16" and the bottom and about 3/16" at the top and the fit is still not great in the middle of the sides, so I give up at mine still being a hinge problem. I still think the molding needs attention even if it *looks* good.

Thanks Wombvette for helping those less fortunate out. Since yours is good, wanna sell your hinges? ;) ;)

Bill

Desertdawg

Bill, the next time you remove your glass, take off the hinges and the struts and set the glass back on the vette to see if it will seal properly, I still think the hinges are your only problem.

What is the chance of you getting some hinges made for us using the dimensions that has been provided.?????

wombvette

I will look into having some cast in brass. Eventhough I dont have an 82 Collector and never have, I have no desire to sell them at this time.

Vette X 3

Wombvette, I was only kidding :nonod: about you selling your hinges. There is a reason YOU have them, but don't need them on your vehicle and we all know what that reason is now that you have been able to give us valuable information. I do believe a sand casting could be done reasonably and a better medium used for the hinge. When I get situated in Denver at my new job, I will endeavor to make several "trial sets". They will not be pretty, but will serve to confirm optimum dimensions and stiffness required. Then, we can work to make them pretty if wombvette doesn't get a new casting made.
It will be months before I can devote much time to the project however as we will be moving, getting our feet on the ground at new employer, etc. I will not forget, but it may take some time. I did lay my glass on my molding w/o any hardware attached and the fit was "good", but not w/o minor gaps which is why I still feel I have two issues-alignment as wombvette said and a new molding is in order. I still don't see my glass touching all the way around by just a "kiss" as a good fit long term. My T-Tops literally squash the molding all the way around and I'd like to get the hatch likewise even tho it might be tough to open at that point.