vince clortho

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=807760

I found a 1965 convertible for sale and pictures are in the above thread in C1/C2 Corvettes. I know a lot of the C3 crowd is hands on, so I am interested in your opinions. The car is NOM and has a passable paint job, but not really great. The current owner has had the car for two years and never put the new brakes on so he could drive it. It does start and run.

The big concern is rust. There is a hole in frame right in front of the driver's rear wheel. The rest of the frame is surface rusted where oil didn't leak on it. I did not see any other holes, and I will go back and tap on it and try to move any parts back and forth. It all seems pretty solid, and I couldn't see any rust when the doors were open or under the dash.

The car is 40 years old, so I expected some rust. Some people are saying "run away no matter what", and others think it is OK if there aren't any other holes or cracks. If I could get it for $15,000, is it worth it? Is there anyone near Rockford,Il who I could hire to look it over? I have tried NCRS and Bloomington, but no reply. It is in a body shop now, but the employees there know the owner, so they may be biased. I really love the C2's, and this is the first running car with paint on it that I have seen for under $25,000. I also don't want to buy a huge money pit. Please post your opinion or e-mail me. Thanks! :cheers:

GTR1999

The only way to properly check the frame is to pull the body. Some frame rot can be repaired if you're good with a torch and welder. But since the age of the car you'll end up rebuilding everything. Rebuilding a C2 isn't any different then a C3,the engines,transmissions,rear ends, suuspensions are all pretty much the same. If you can do ALL the work it might be worth it to you. A C2 will hold a higher value then most C3 so the potential could be there to sell it in the future without a loss but you really have to think this through. For $15,000 you may still put more into it then buying a very good non rusted car.
I'm guessing it would cost me at least $10,000 to get it in shape doing all the work,less any paint. A vette shop would charge about 3 times tha cost.
The asking price of 20,000 is too much-IMO.
Gary

JB

Depends. It will cost a LOT to have the frame repaired, both in money and time. You'll have to separate the body from the chassis, and the rusted out section will have to be cut out and replaced. You can buy frame sections from a lot of vendors & they're not that expensive, but it's a pretty big project you're talking about.

But then again, it's a midyear, and as you know those have gotten pricey. If the rest of the frame was solid and the car was otherwise in good condition except for the lousy paint, I personally wouldn't consider it for anything over $18 or $19K.

JB

MaxxSmoke

I have to agree. the reason he is selling it is because he had come to the conclusion is to much $$ to fix. now he is hoping some pie in the sky fool will give him good money for it only to find out later what he already knows !!!
good luck if you buy it :party:

wcsinx

Prob. not what you want to hear but (for me) any rust holes would be a deal breaker. If it was bad enough to rust all the way through in one spot, then you can bet there's a lot of damage elsewhere. The only way I'd remotely consider a car like that would be if I could get it on a lift and then with a screwdriver and hammer poke, prod, and pound on every square inch of that frame. If the damage was localized to just a couple spots then maybe but sure as hell not for 20k ... even 15k is a stretch IMHO.


[Modified by wcsinx, 5:55 PM 5/3/2004]

vince clortho

The vote really seems to be turning against it! I guess I need to look at a few more frames to figure out what a good, average, and bad one look like. I'm torn because I have walked away from three cars to think about them and all three sold within a couple days. I will look it over one more time and take some close up pictures. Maybe the owner will e-mail me some more detailed pictures.

MaxxSmoke

Just remember Vince there are ALOT of woodbe resto guys who really have no clue. these folks line up around the block to buy hoping they can buy cheap and sell high. The problem is when you own it those guys seem to evaporate. don't second guess yourself. you might jump into a mess if you do .... Just my 2cents worth

NHvette

When I first pulled my 75 body ... I found way more rotted frame than met my eye with the body on.
I knew it needed attention due to repairs that I had done to the frame rail end cap.
After pulling the body up, the inside corners were terrible.
You don't see this at all with the body on.

Check out the '75' pictures on my website (in sig) to see what I mean.
:seeya

stpman

Here's what a bad one looks like

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=806122

Steve :steering:

vince clortho

Wow! :eek: That's scary. The one I'm looking at doesn't look that bad, but the body is covering a lot of it. I asked the seller for close up pictures and I will post them as soon as I get them. I may go back Friday and pound and pick at the frame.

stpman

I knew this one was bad but it didn't look this bad with the body on. once the body was off and a little :smash: that's what i seen


[Modified by stpman, 1:43 PM 5/3/2004]

Kevin Mason

From what you are saying, it is not clear that you have seen this car in person.

If it is the case that you have not seen the car, inspected it yourself, and had an independent expert inspect it (remember, it is a project, and from your posts, you do not have much direct experience with early Vettes), do NOT purchase a project like this.

"Bargains" like this one will turn into money pits real fast.

mrvette

Now, having read all that, once the frame is out from under the car, and stripped of all running gear, I know for a fact that me and a buddy in a weeks worth of evenings, can refab that thing into perfect if not better than stock shape.....but it's HIS welding and fabbing ability, not mine...but it would be done....

but that is not to say some fanatic would not notice the repairs/alterations in a split second.....and that NCRS type person would automatically condemn the car.....

course it helps to be an expert welder, and have all the saws and source of steel also...yeh well no poopie....

GENE

vince clortho

I did go see the car on Saturday. I didn't ask if I could hit the frame with a hammer, but I should have. I have had a 1967 Camaro convert, a 1969 Camaro coupe, and a 1966 El Camino. These were all in the 80's before #'s matching and $30,000 cars were forseeable. You are correct that I have never had a Vette or looked at many of them.

I really don't think the owner is trying to hide anything. He brought his shop manuals and was very interested in the things I pointed out. He said he wanted to restore the car back to its original fuel injection, but didn't have the money to do it.

I have swapped engines and transmissions, changed out interiors, and done the usual brake jobs and radiator swaps. I would love to do a frame off some day, but I just want to drive this car for now. I have no illusions that I could ever put it back to #'s matching. I think it would be a lot more fun to just clean it up and drive it.

All that being said, the birdcage and frame rust really concern me. I will bring my hammer and screwdriver and really go over it. I would also like to wire brush some sections and dig into it with a screwdriver. Hopefully, I will find someone to inspect it with me. Barring that, I will get photos for the the forum experts to judge. :lol:

NHvette

While you are there ... check for rotted birdcage behind the kickpanels up front.
Also, reach under the edge in the rocker area (below door bottom).
Grab the rocker channel (steel) between the channel and the frame.
Pull out on this piece. If it flexes much ... that would be another indication of excessive rust.
The windshield frame should show some rust peeking out - if it is in bad shape.
Look in from the outside ... around the outer edges of the trim and dash.

:seeya

killain

Vince, the only way to do this is to swap frames. That is going to cost about 10K. That's what you have to consider. Can you buy this car, fix it and enjoy it once it's done, sure ! The thing doesn't look all that bad overall, but your going to need a new rust free chassis plain and simple!

Wicked_SS

woh woh woh here folks, we have no idea how bad the rot is and we are talking about changing the whole frame? Are you guys nuts? No flames intended, but for all we know just the end caps are rusted which are $12 a side. Even if there is some rust in the frame and birdcage $15k for a C2 in runnning driving condition is still pretty cheap. As long as the structure of the car is OK and it is OK to drive I'd say pick that baby up in a second. Frames can be fixed. We're not talking NCRS car here. My .02

Paul L

Vince,
You seem damned and determined to buy that car based on your posts here and over at C2. I would not. You will be buying on emotion and not reason. You want a "driver" but I doubt that a car in that condition can be saftied for the road. If you wish to have the frame repaired or replaced you are looking at months or years at a great cost. If you are a patient person then go for it. If you are like me and wish to drive, keep looking for a keeper. It took several years to find the car in the pic below at what I considered a good price. Certainly not $15,000 but much less than $25,000 in additional head-aches you may experience. And I have no hesitation in driving it and feeling safe. Do not underestimate the cost of refurbishing these cars. It is substantial. I have put several thousand into this nice car in one year and paint at about $7000.00 may be on the agenda for next year. But I am a bit **** about appearance. Keep looking the good ones are out there. But you need to start from a more solid base structure.

And if you think you can do the work yourself, forget it. I was a professional administrator like you at one point and jobs get in the way of hobbies. Interest and enthusiasm fades with time. Find a good and solid C2 example, enjoy your job, and do not learn to hate a rusting carcass in your garage.

Paul



Please, I am not gloating but this is my frame. This type of car can be had for less than $30,000 with an NOM small block. I urge you to think carefully about your possible purchase.




[Modified by paul67, 9:01 PM 5/3/2004]


[Modified by paul67, 9:10 PM 5/3/2004]


[Modified by paul67, 9:21 PM 5/3/2004]

MikeC

If its got one hole in it there are more there, you just can't see them yet. and there are many areas with very thin metal. Holes in frame are bad things... very very bad things!

Expect a frame replacement and birdcage too. If you can live with the price of the car and cost those two items.... then go ahead and buy it.

I'd run away from it for $15K..... at 10K I'd think about it, at 5K I'd buy it.

It is my opinion that the guy is selling it for a reason..... and it isn't because he can't afford to put it back to original fuel injection, its as someone else said the car needs more work than its worth.

My69

:iagree: I agree with Paul. You have been bitten by the bug. I would not rush into this. The car is going to take more than you think to get it ready to roll. Keep looking. You will find a better deal.

Mike