bossman

Has anyone try duracool in there a/c yet? Or heard of someone who has? Any info would be great.
Thanks Mark :grouphug:

phxraptor

If the system works good and you have no leaks I would stay with R12 in an R12 system. Cools much better and was what the system was designed to use. :cheers: :seeya

kaiserbud

THe fact that R12 may cool a bit better (5 degrees) is not worth the worry of leaks in the A/C. As I will be doing in my COrvette, I just got done updateing my 72 MOnte Carlo with R134a and it cools fine. Really - the worry of spending $major cash for freon is just not worth it. PLus - they have alternative products now...Freeze 12, etc - although I cannot comment on them personally

markdtn

As I have said before so I will say again-use only R12 or R134. Stay away from the blends! R12 and R134 have molecules that are the same size. If you have a leak you can replace what is lost. The blends have molecules as different in size as BBs and ping-pong *****. When the "BBs" leak out you have to completely evacuate and recharge the system to regain balance. All this R12 paranoia is amusing too. It's not that expensive. Whats a $100 A/C charge in a $10k+ probably car?


[Modified by markdtn, 9:23 AM 4/21/2004]

gliot1

I agree......Relatively, it's not that expensive to simply recharge the R-12. I have a buddy who's a Chrysler mechanic. It's $70.00 a pound, and he says most cars take 1.5 to 2 pounds. To keep the car orginal if you so desire, is cheap. Has anyone every tried the new kits for around $40? I am told that the kits gives you new valves, lubricant and the coolant. I am told they work just fine, and are an inexpesive changeover alternative. They now sell these all over, so I would guess they do work.

markdtn

Yes, I've used the kits. There is nothing wrong with a properly done R134 retro, but R12 is still relatively cheap. The C3 Vette A/C system is marginal so you need all you can get.

Tom73

Mark,
Are you referencing "Duracool 12a". If so, the EPA says it is an Unacceptable Substitute on their web site at http://www.epa.gov/spdpublc/snap/ref.../macssubs.html

They say it is a "Flammable blend of hydrocarbons" and that they have "insufficient data to demonstrate safety"

tom...


[Modified by Tom73, 12:50 PM 4/21/2004]

Solid LT1

Duracool=butane/propane mix nice stuff for a fiberglass barbecue!

maint1

I agree. Most of the "cheap" alternatives to Freon are flammable gas that will work but better suited for your gas grill and lighter.

BB wowbagger

Isnt R12/R22 forbidden to use since they destroy the Ozonlayer? :sad:

Tom73

R-12 (freon) can still be sold and used as long as supplies last. Just that you cannot manufacture or import it anymore. But since there are warehouses full of it out there and demand is decreasing (due to R-12 systems either being junked or converted) I suspect that it will be available for the rest of my life expectancy. And who knows, maybe the price will start coming down due to a possable oversupply :)

tom...

Garrett1972

R12 and R134 have very different sized molecules, so much so that they require different materials for hoses. R134 has to have special barrier hoses, and compatible o-rings. as for being flamable, so is freon.

Wrencher

This is part of my line of work. We converted our entire fleet of R-12 systems to R-134a as they failed. the previous poster is correct that late systems use barrier hose (it has a hard nylon liner), but our experience shows that good used R-12 hoses are so saturated/impregnated with refrigerant oil that they work just as well. Replace the dryer, add the right amount of ester100 oil after cleaning out the old stuff, evacuate and charge it up. Any other problems are the same for both types of refrigerant.

Also, we have found that some sytems actually cool better with r134a! My original '69 system cools to 38 degrees on r134a, but it could use more fan volume.

All the blends use some form of propane. BOOM! And if they tell you r-12 and r-134 are flammable as well, understand that it is only true while they are under pressure. As soon as it vents (leaks) they are inert. Blends will blow even if vented. Hope this helps.

Hans

12stepvette

I have tried Duracool and Freeze 12.....DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY!!!
I have a VIR valve system and didn`t want to convert to 134...so I tried the R12 alternatives...I was very disappointed and couldn`t get better than 65 degrees out of the vents.I bought a few cans of R12 off of Ebay and now have 45 degree temps. :hurray:

markdtn

What I meant was that all the molecules in a volume of R12 are very similar sized and all the molecules in a volume of R134 are very similar sized. The molecules in a volume of a blend are not! Yes, the R12 and R134 molecules are different sized and cannot be mixed.

I too have had good luck with conversions and stock hose.


[Modified by markdtn, 11:28 AM 4/22/2004]

FeedVaal

:iagree: That stuff sucks. Stick with freon or go with 134a.

slaine

12stepvette,did you have to have a license to purchase the R-12 off of ebay?
Mike