bence13_33

Hello All! It's been a while since my last post, wow there are a lot of new names on the forum that I don't recognize. I had initially decided to sell off my 454 and go the 540 route, I sold off my heads and intake and was in the process of selling my shortblock. However I decided that it wouldn't be anywhere near finished for summer time (I want to do some cruising & drag racing this summer). So I decided to change my setup around a little and drive the 454 again this summer. Here is what I have planned:

454 +.060" (468ci)
12.5:1 Compression
Forged Pistons, 4340 Forged Rods, Cast LS4 Crankshaft
2 Bolt Mains w/ ARP Main Studs
Pro Topline 320cc Aluminum Heads (2.25/1.88 Valves)
Comp Cams Pro Magnum Roller Rocker Arms
Comp Cams 306S Solid Flat Tappet Cam (306/306, .629/.629, 110LSA)
Dart Intake & Holley 1050 Dominator
Aluminum Flywheel

This setup will go along with my Super T10 4 Speed, 4.11 Gears & 10" slicks. The car will be driven on the street a lot and also drag raced at the track a lot. Motor will be shifted at about 6500-6700RPMs. I chose the 306S as a cam because I can't afford a solid roller setup yet (poor college student) and I really like solid flat tappet cams. I'm hoping I can sneak by on 93-94 pump gas, the aluminum heads and overlap of the bigger cam will hopefully help with the detonation issues. I went with the Pro Topline 320cc heads because they have some nice flow numbers for the money (I paid $1500 for them complete & shipped to my door). Also I figured if I ever went to a larger motor in the future I could always send them off to have them ported. Desktop Dyno 2000 says 705 horsepower...I would imagine it will be closer to around 650 horsepower or so. So what do you guys/gals think? What kind of track times/horsepower numbers should I expect?

GDaina

Didn't you just do the motor? Why go .060 over? Surely the walls don't have ridges....060 the walls will be paper thin...I would just do a hone and new rings.

You won't get by on pump gas, not with 12 to 1 pistons

You may have to go to a deeper gear, maybe 4.56 if you plan on that cam...your low end will be soggy, and feel as if you're stuck in mud, but once you hit 3rd, watch out, that monster will start to breathe and come alive


[Modified by GDaina, 11:45 PM 4/8/2004]

bence13_33

GDaina:
I had it punched out +.060" the first time around, it needed bored out anyway so why not go big the first time. I figured if I busted a ring on a +.030" and scarred up the cylinder wall another +.030" most likely won't clean that mess up anyway. Norval told me he ran 11.25:1 compression with cast iron heads and solid flat tappet about the size that I am looking at and made it by on 94 octane without any detonation issues. The aluminum heads will help dissipate the heat better than the cast iron heads. Worse case scenario I have to run a couple gallons of 114 octane to avoid detonation.

69 N.O.X. RATT

Shane, good to see you back.

I think your combo looks pretty good, although I think the cam you bought from me would be a better fit, particularly with the 108 lsa. If you keep the rpms down you could probably limp around with close to pump gas and it should make better tq and power in the rpm range that set up will want. The 4.11's should be ok, if they are a little shallow then run a 26 in. slick. If I rememebr right the Super T-10 has a first gear of around 2.5 or so. That is a 10.2 overall which is ok for a motor in that power range. I think 700 hp is optimistic, but 650-675 is doable.

The Darts are good intakes, and the 1050 will be needed. Make sure it is balanced good and wing her to 7000 rpms :) .

Here I go again, any chance of a little NOS to make the number. I can beat Summit with my hook up at Mike Thermos' new shop. I know you are a N/A kind of guy, but a 150 shot would pick you up close to a second. Beleive me when you hit that button and the motor changes pitch and feels like it grew a hundred cubes it is addicting :smash: Either way good luck and good to see you back.

GrandSportC3

The lift on that cam seems relatively low for a big block.. Why don't you go with something closer to .700 lift??

With that setup that you are planning to build - you should be able to run upper 10's to low 11's... In cold weather - maybe even better..

69 N.O.X. RATT

With traction you are correct, it should ET pretty well. The reason for the "Lower" lift cam is the fact it is a flat tappet, any more than that and the cams wear out very quickly and are much more likely to go flat during break in. .630 to .650 is really the limit for a street cam, Nascar guys are close to .800, but believe me there is a lot of technology in doing that

bence13_33

John:
I was figuring on about 650 horsepower. 7000RPM with a cast crank ok? The motor is balanced right now, I'll have it re-balanced whenever I swap pistons. I've had it to 7000RPMs while drag racing before without any problems, I've also had it beyond that the one time I missed a shift. I may have to take you up on that nitrous deal. I'd probably keep it handy for one of those "just in case deals" ;) . I have Harold trying to talk me into a Lunati cam this is a bit wilder than the 306S. Of course I forgot to mention that the motor will be open headers again :) .

Olivier:
The Pro Topline's flow to .700" lift but I'm not sure the increased valve lift from .630/.630 to .700/.700 would be justified considering the added valve train stress. Also, I believe once you start going in the .700 range you are in roller territory....I don't have the funds to move up to a solid roller cam. The car will probably never see past 11.50 at the track...I'll shut it down after the 1/8 mile. Once I break 11.50 it's roll cage time, and I refuse to cage my car. So I'll probably just race the 1/8 and see what I can manage. Or maybe I'll pull past the starting line and wait 3-4 seconds before launching it to see what kind of MPH it will turn in the 1/4 :) . More or less I am making it into a street sweeper for bragging rights.

GrandSportC3

I have a 6-point rollbar going in very soon... I want to run mid 10's with my car... It's an addiction.. and I want to go faster and faster...

If you don't want to run faster than mid 11's - you don't need .700 lift anyways.. That planned setup is more than you need!!




[Modified by GrandSportC3, 1:55 PM 4/9/2004]

Bob Turner

Bence!

Great to see you back up posting! I am glad to see you keeping the car running even though you don't have your 540 yet. Good luck with that setup. I am looking forward to seeing some 1/4 mile times.

What is the best 1/4 you ran so far?

Bob :cheers:

The Money Pit

I'm a smallblock guy,but what I noticed when "dynoing on the PC" is that once you reach around 230-240@.050 degrees in cam duration,even though the hp will rise slightly,the ET stays the same or fairly close.This is the breaking point for "street engine" in my opinion.Once you go bigger,the problems compound.You'll have no power brakes,for sure it won't idle under a grand.The top end gain will be slight unless you have really great flowing heads and an intake that will work in the high end.The cams these days are ground with tighter LC which in a sense does away with the high CR requirements that were the norm in the past.I run a 406 with the Comp XE-284 and the idle rumps,and it'll pull to 6500 on pump gas.That cam has 240@.050 and I run 10.1 CR and a dual plane intake.I was trying for a max street type engine and I think I'm close.

That being said I think the cam should be no more than 250@.050 and CR in the 10's.I'd guess 550-600hp and ET's in the high 10 second range and still be able to drive on the street.

LOTAHP

YOU ASKED!!! My opinion:

.060 over :smash:
12.5 compression :smash:
flat tappet cam :smash:

DO NOT RUSH... If you cannot afford to do it the way "you really want to do it" be patient and save $$$. There is always next spring. I'm sure you have in mind a "reliable" street/strip Vette.

427Hotrod

Hi Shane,

Glad to see you're playing with it again.

I think you might as well count of buying race gas with that compression. Sure you'll be able to limp around on pump gas, but when Billy Bob Mustang pulls up beside you with a Vortech, you better have good stuff in the tank!

I have a good friend who just knew he had the discipline to keep good gas in my old Camaro he bought from me. He eventually built a 12.5 454. Three rebuilds later from pounding out main bearings he decided maybe a pump gas 502 was for him.

If you know you can keep good gas in it, then build it and fly.

But you gotta get away from those "normal" cams. Get into the "real" solid flat tappets in the catalogs. Those 306S and the like are not very aggressive really. You can get into the .650 (nominal) lift range at least and be OK. That's only .630 at the valve at best. With your heads, a few .000's increase in lift can be huge since they will really start flowing at higher lifts as opposed to stock heads that sign off by then.

Listen to Harold...he has some pretty serious cams that will outperform some similar looking on paper cams. Yes you will need good springs for sure, yes you may need to break it in with the inner springs out, but it's just part of the deal. Get some lifters ($89) with the laser hole drilled in them to oil the cam face. That will help.

The 26" slicks might be a good deal to help wake it up and get RPM up in the 6500-6800 range in the lights.


Good luck,


JIM

Guru_4_hire

Higher ration rockers? you can get 1.55-1.8 ratio big block rockers

Corey_68

Sounds like a killer setip, but w/ 12:5:1, race gas is a MUST. :yesnod: