2TONE82

I recently picked up a very original low mileage car. As we all know, Father Time can do as much damage as Uncle Mileage so last night I pulled off the 22 year old rear calipers as the left rear sprung a leak this weekend.

The replacement ones are from AutoZone. I used them for the calipers on all for corners of my other car and was very pleased at the price and warranty...not to mention they were in stock, no waiting on the brown truck.

The new ones are Delco Moraine and the number match the numbers on the original. There are some small casting marks on the original ones that are not visible on the new ones, suspect this is due to the re-manufacturing process the new ones went through.

I don't know whither or not I will attempt to achieve Top Flight or Bloomington Survivor status with this...a good topic for another post on down the road...right now I want to drive the car and enjoy doing simple repairs like the brakes as needed.

How important are things like the original calipers when one goes for Top Flight or Survivor status? Should I keep the original calipers and rebuild them later or just return for the core charge...about $40 each?

I'm starting to see a drop or two of antifreeze as well; suspect a 22 year old water pump getting tired. Same question applies, how important is it to keep/rebuild the original should I have her judged later?

Thanks for the advice.

Nowhere Man

when getting a car for top flight oragainl numbers matching parts are the key replacment parts will hurt you

mayberg

Another take on your question is simply "How obtainable are the parts that I need for a numbers-matching restoration?"

In your two cases, water pumps appear to be simple enough to come by, and I'm not sure whether casting numbers on the calipers are even mentioned in the NCRS TRJM. I can't speak to Bloomington stuff.

Based on what you've said here, I would chuck the calipers and get the core charge back, but I'd hang on to the water pump (assuming it's the original one) for rebuild later on.

That's what I'd do. Anyone else care to comment?

jlsru

I always save rebuildable parts that come off my 75.If I don't use them maybe the next owner will.You never know. :thumbs:

GDaina

Muskegon Brake will reseelve your calipers, if you specify you want yours back...though the price will be higher than the ones at the Zone...

Robert N

Did just that. Went with new calipers (returned old as cores), replaced water pump and kept old. The pump could be rebuilt (though I am not one to trust a rebuilt water pump for the regular driving I do.) and the numbers will matter. The caliper numbers are not checked.

markdtn

I think if Survivor is a possibility then I would save the old calipers and pump. You will always pay more in the future to obtain what you already have now.

Rowdy Rat

...yet. ;)

Might be interesting to see what happens when the next edition of the 1968-1969 and 1970-1972 TIM&JGs are printed.

The casting numbers are pretty well documented at this point and will be easy to judge. There is still some conjecture about date codes so that might take a little longer.

Caliper casting numbers are most definitely checked during NCRS Bowtie and Bloomington Gold Survivor judging as are a lot of other items that aren't normally checked during flight judging (NCRS) or certification BG)... Tire dates for example.

My take is, if you already have the original parts (and they are restorable), why not refurbish or restore them?

Regards,

Chuck Gongloff

For Survivor (a Bloomington Gold term) and Bow Tie (a NCRS term) you're better off doing NOTHING to the car. They like to see original untouched parts...no wrench marks on the bolt heads, etc. They would rather see a leaky water pump than a freshly replaced/rebuilt one. It's a special judging class for special cars, and also special car owners. If you're serious about Bow Tie/Survivor, I'd do NOTHING to the car. Chuck

Robert N

Stan,

the scary part of this hobby is the fact that once you learn the rules, they change!!.

We already have one interesting situation if the GM production numbers are released. We know have a second one - all of the cars that are Top Flight, but with wrong calipers. Selling a car as Top Flight could be an issue. The car was met the old standard, but not not meet the new one. Is the car really Top Flight??

Rowdy Rat

Robert,

Very true, but to be honest, it has always been that way... We keep learning more about these cars all the time. That's also one of the reasons that NCRS is adamant that the TIM&JG is only a guide. Often times, the judge(s) may have additional information or knowledge about a particular area or part. The judge may make a deduction if they choose to. I prefer to inform the owner and let them do some research without a deduction the first time the car is judged... If the car is shown again without any further effort by the owner, I feel justified in taking the deduction at that point. It doesn't happen often though... The TIM&JG are relatively comprehensive and accurate.

Haven't heard to much about Jim Mattison's project recently... I still have some hope that he will eventually be allowed to release this information.

As far as your second issue, this happens all the time. A car judged at an NCRS event today is up against much tougher standards than one judged ten years ago... As you noted, that car judged as Top Flight a few years ago may not be able to score high enough for Top Flight today.

Regards,

killain

I replaced everything that stops, spins or slides with itself on my 79. The starter I removed, had rebuild and reinstalled. Same with everything else. I don't think there's that much difference in caliper numbers? I'm getting mine flight judged this summer ! :lol:


[Modified by killain, 7:13 PM 3/25/2004]

Paul Borowski

I've "Survivored" 3 Corvettes since '94. My Orange '74 in '94, my old Yellow '80 in 2001 and in 2003 my Silver '68. Survivor is'nt as hard to get as NCRS Bowtie. In "Survivor", the car has to "APPEAR" to the judges to be at least 50% or greater in "ORIGINALITY" in Exterior(paint, glass, bumpers wheels, etc.), Interior, Engine Compartment & Chassis. Tires, batteries, exhaust, calipers, shocks(wear items) generally is'nt an issue just for "Survivor", but would be for BenchMark or NCRS Bowtie. In "Survivor"(and Bowtie)the car can be "maintained", just not "restored" :yesnod:


[Modified by Paul Borowski, 8:18 PM 3/25/2004]

2TONE82

Thanks for all of the comments...but I'm even more confused. Can anyone provide or point me to a web site that provides further details on the terms used above such as Bowtie, Survivor, Top Flight, Benchmark, etc. As important, what are the benefits of a car achieving such status?

I don't know much about these terms but can appreciate the NCRS Top Flight status as this weekend I caught a few minutes of the Barrett Auction. Saw a '62 cross the stage. The commentators asked the floor camera guy if the car had any paperwork, he just zoomed in on the NCRS Top Flight sticker and everyone agreed that was all they needed to see.

Now I know my '82 will never reach the same status as the '62 but I'm still interested in the details on these monikers.

Also, update on the AutoZone Calipers, they are original Delco Moraine's all right, the right rear sprung a leak at the inside rear piston seal on my test drive this afternoon. I'll be testing that return policy in the morning. Hope they have another in stock....still hanging on to the original calipers for now; core charge totaled $68.

Semper Fi

2TONE82

red topless gator

you can check out Bloomington Gold at "www.bloomingtongold.com".LT

pzcg7l

:iagree: Chuck's right - just leave it :thumbs:

2TONE82

...that's two people that have said leave it alone for survivor judging...it's a brake caliper. I realize I have three more on the car but it just aint safe like this on the road guys... :skep:

NHvette

What they are saying is touch as little as possible (for NCRS Bowtie judging).
It's too late for your brake caliper. An experienced judge will see that it has
been removed and put back on. Points off ... but not dead in the water.
:seeya

gq82

Listen when it comes to safety you do what you gotta do....as far as originality goes if you have to remove a part it's better to refurbish it than replace it. :chevy

82-Guy

I have a 1982 with the Bowtie & Regional Top Filght Awards along with another 82 with a Regional Top Flight. Both cars had the calipers replaced with the Delco's. The Bowtie car has no clear coat on the wheels & no original tires and both cars have a few items replaced like plug wires a belt, a hose and battery. In short, your car only needs to be 80 or 85% (I forgot) original in for areas - interior, exterior, mechanical & chassis. In other words, if you had a spot repainted, as long as the exterior is within the 80-85% originality, your are fine. Each area = a Star, and 4 Stars = Bowtie.

In short, keep what you can original, but some of if won't matter if you have enough of an offset with original parts..

:seeya
Guy


[Modified by 82-Guy, 4:09 PM 3/26/2004]