Paul L

Can we keep them off the Forum. Most if not all major Corvette suppliers are legitimate businesses. I have bought from most of the big ones for some time with no problems. Take your gripes off-line and deal with them one-on-one. It makes no sense to me to beat up unilaterally on a vendor in this public forum. And it further makes no sense to expect them to defend themselves here. Recent threads present speculation on a buyer/vendor relationship that is virtually impossible to sort out. Nor should it be the role of this community to do so.

white74

I respectfully disagree. I go to this forum for three main things- tech advice, ideas, and product advice/vedor advice. In my opinion, that is what is wrong with car magazines, they only give good product/vendor reviews. How many times have you seen a product require tech support flown in to fix a problem, but that product still gets a good review. IMHO vendor and product reviews are the major advantage of a forum. I want to learn from someone elses problems.

GDaina

I agree with you Paul, I don't like vendor bashing of any kind. As a rule, posts that deal with vendor dissatisfaction should be made public as a last resort, after all efforts fail. The forum is unique in that it serves a two fold purpose, a venue to get a distastefull transaction out of one's system and may, in some cases provide the needed leverage to settle the problem.

Too many times we read about a purchase gone bad after one or two phone calls have fallen on deaf ears. Wheather the buyer or the vendor is at fault, only the parties involved know, and for the forum membership to pass judgement after hearing only one side....well, that's not right either.

As a moderator, I have the right to kill such threads, but at the same time, I'm violating the member's right to post what is on his mind. It's a catch-22, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.


[Modified by GDaina, 7:02 PM 3/20/2004]

Fevre

Most iimes you can tell if someone has a legit beef or is just a difficult customer, I like to get feedback on both good and bad transactions by other forum members in case I want to purchase something in the futue. If we are only allowed to post good how are we to give other forum members a heads up on someone we feel is not so good?

turtlevette

i agree Paul, a lot of these are people whineing.

cardo0

And I totaly diagree. This is what the forum is really all about: exchange good information about our hobby and expose hearsay, bad products, bad busieness practice by participants/individuals/vendors. Other forums (non automotive) I participate in do not enjoy fair and prompt monitoring like we enjoy and are overrun with cronies that continualy badger and bad mouth new members to purchase thier products and information - whether you really need/want it. And I have seen nothing but fair oversight by our monitors.
IMHO this is a five star forum as is. :thumbs:
What is written here has to understood as opinion only and its up to the indiviual how good/reliable the source is as even veteren mechanics that mean well can make mistakes or have a misunderstanding. :D
cardo0

page62

:iagree: with GDaina...you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Like most things in life, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. So it often takes both sides of the story in order to get a true reckoning of what's going on.

NOTHIN'LIKE'A'69'

I think it is important to judge vendors on this "FORUM" as long as it is in good taste. I come to this site for advice on how to do things and who to buy from. In my opinion the "moderators" will always defend the vendors because they have to. The vendor's $$$$ support to this site gets them a get out of jail card. I appreciate all the vendor info I find here. I am doing my first frame off resto and would like to spend my money wisely. If a vendors chooses to do business with this site and their members, they must be able to accept the critisizm from a "forum". :D

Forum: 4. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience paticipation.

Paul L

George,
I appreciate your rights and responsibilities as a Moderator. I have had some minor problems with vendors at times but those were worked out amicably by telephone or e-mail. It just gets on my nerves that people will use this Forum to bash vendors when they should sort matters out on their own. And broadcast a bulletin that this or that vendor is incompetent. I have done the on-line purchase thing and I have seen these folks in action at Carlisle. I have a pretty good understanding of where I put my money. And which will respond to a reasoned complaint. I find vendor bashing on the Forum just tacky.

Paul L

Most vendors do not support this Forum.

killain

I think a lot of vendors support this site. Having said that a casual conversation with a vendor is usually very productive, and I too have dealt with almost every vendor dealing with C-3 and C-4 corvettes. Once there was one who wouldn't, but all the other vendors I've spoke with in the last four years have always been open to the other side of the story. I recently called Dewitt reproductions about a product i bought and who do you think called me back personally, Tom Dewitt the owner. So some vendors go out of their way to work with you and some don't. But this is a place like a club house where I can tell you or anyone what's troubling me. We wouldn't be a club if we're only allowed to say certain things about certain things. I don't support vendor bashing, but vendors or their staff needs to meet the buyer halfway on an issue.

BBShark

Well said! This IS what a forum's purpose is supposed to be. If certain subjects are off limits (censored), it is not a forum.

72rdstr

I appreciate the bad and the good. However, the first attempt to resolve an issue with a vendor should not involve posting on a public forum. If other avenues do not work, I want to know. How a vendor deals with a probelm, esp in public, can influence whether I deal with them or not.

If someone posts a real flamer, I tend to take it with a grain of salt as they're obviously angry....
Just my opinion, YMMV

NOTHIN'LIKE'A'69'

Paul --- How do you know that it's less than 1%....So would it be fair to say that 1% of the people that have problems with vendors voice their opinions here? We all know that the majority of the vendors on this site have a very good reputation. The fact of the matter is that we can all judge a thread that is out to purely bash a vendor for the hell of it. I more concerned with people like you who think that if someone has a bad experience with a vendor they should not be allowed to warn and help others. We all pay alot of money on parts. This is an expensive hobby and I think that companies that charge these premium prices should be under scrutiny for their customer service as well as their products. This is why we have many choices in vendors and I want as much info as posible on the vendor I am handing my paycheck over to. :cheers:

NOTHIN'LIKE'A'69'

Paul --- How do you know that it's less than 1%....So would it be fair to say that 1% of the people that have problems with vendors voice their opinions here? We all know that the majority of the vendors on this site have a very good reputation. The fact of the matter is that we can all judge a thread that is out to purely bash a vendor for the hell of it. I more concerned with people like you who think that if someone has a bad experience with a vendor they should not be allowed to warn and help others. We all pay alot of money on parts. This is an expensive hobby and I think that companies that charge these premium prices should be under scrutiny for their customer service as well as their products. This is why we have many choices in vendors and I want as much info as posible on the vendor I am handing my paycheck over to.

BBShark

I have only been a member of this forum since I bought my 68 project in October. My overall opinion is that there are some good vendors out there and some bad (and the vast majority fall somewhere in the middle). I look at this forum for the members experiences with maintaining and modifiying C3's. Part of that is "who makes the best carpet?" or "I bought revo canuter valve from X and they sent me a framistat!". Both are valid to me, since in the future I will be buying these things (OK, real things) and I would like to make an informed decision.

That said, being a new member, I am reluctant to critisize vendors on this forum. I have seen threads that seem to indicate that it is not a wise decision. This is unfortunate because this is exactly the information that I am looking for.

Personally I have had only one bad experience with a forum vendor that is a non "catalog" operation. I have had no problems with Paragon, Corvette Central and Eklers. I usually order over the phone and have been impressed with the people who answer the phone. But probably most important, I buy from local shops where I can talk to someone in person. I probably pay a little more but I don't have to buy something that I don't want and these are the people who need support from us, all of us, to insure that they will be there in the future.

slaine

If it's about corvettes and it's the truth, I wanna read about it and make my own mind up. There ARE two sides to every story. Vendors can always respond if "making the problem right is too tough"(thud). Having said that, probably 70% of the time, the problem originates at the customer end of the problem. From what I've read in this forum, frustration occurs because the vendors aren't as efficient at communication as they are at COLLECTING MONEY. I own a small business. When doing the right thing and trying to satisfy the customer no longer results in my my making a profit, I'll retire.
Mike

wacked

:iagree:

PROSOUTH

Good statements Slaine. Most of the time it does seem to only be about COLLECTING MONEY. But there are still some really good Corvette Suppliers to deal with. I have had excellent dealings with several. Dan & Art Dorrset of Van Steel come to mind first and then I have had numerous transactions with the Last Detail for years and it goes on down the line.

Communication as Slaine has mentioned is the key to good business and is the main ingredient in Customer Service. Without good Customer Service you will lose the main factor of a business's profit which is Customers. Without them profit can not generate due to loss of sales.

I like to have a reputable supplier to deal with and with the modern day computer programs available when I call to order he should have my information at hand after my initial purchase. This is now the first step of a good transaction.

As far as 70% of the problem originating at the customer end I somewhat disagree. If the Vendor has done his best at describing the product, providing proper illustrations and proper applications this figure should be considerably less. Most customer errors are from lack of information or the inability of it to be interpreted.

One Vendor whose demeanor is discussed quite often is constantly praised for his splendid display of parts and their applications. But when a mistake is made by the customer he seems offended that the average Joe wasn't able to decipher the correct message. Yes, we need customer service so we can ask that stupid question that everyone should know, and for some reason I don't always understand the information given so the little light just doesn't come on in my head.

Is the Customer always right? No, But he can be coerced to supply all of the pertinent information required assuring that he gets what he needs and not something wrong he orders due to his mis-interpretation of the catalog.

The sales method needs to be mistake proofed in order to assure a few things that should be a given factor. That the customer gets what he needs, in a timely manner, of good quality, and at a competitive price. This is what makes a happy repeat customer that will result in even more sales/profit from his good reference.

It also seems that customers are frustrated from the lack of knowledge that counter sales people have of the Corvette. There has to be someone in the transaction that has a comprehensible knowledge of what is needed and have the proper information available to make the correct decision. Sometimes it seems that neither the customer nor the sales person has any idea of what is needed by the customer, Here is where a skilled parts man can deduce the part needed from numerous references to the thing-a-ma-jig that is hooked to the what-cha-macallit.

Even good vendors hire counterman that are not competent or at least not up to speed until he either learns the business or the owner is enlightened to his inability to learn. How many customers are lost from these vendors that never return because of their one encounter with an in-experienced counterman?

As for the display of "bad" vendors on the forum? If they truly are a bad vendor then I want to know. I do agree that most rants are somewhat premature and some are even ridiculous. What I really think is off color is the lynch mob offers of breaking arms and other threats that only belittle us the forum members.

Like George D. said "Damned if you do, Damned if ya don't." but make sure that the customer gets what he needs, in a timely manner, of good quality, and at a competitive price.
:yesnod: Jim


[Modified by PROSOUTH, 4:01 AM 3/22/2004]

Corey_68

Paul, I rspect your opinion and you are completely entitled to it. I'm sure you had my thread partly in mind when you started this thread. My intentsion wasn't to "beat up" ANY vendor only to state what happened.

I may be the large minority, but I value customer relations a great deal. I'm no stranger to dealing with customer service for we have a classic car restoration business as well. I was completely suprised by the particular company, I have spent thousands and yet they were screwing be over a $50 part I never recieved.

I also like to hear of those forum members who have had good AND bad transaction among other foum memembers. We have several individuals selling items on the forum, I merely like to hear who I can trust and whom I can not. Nothing more, nothing less.


I just don't believe in only posting the good and forgetting the bad. That is biased info to me.



[Modified by Corey 68, 4:07 AM 3/22/2004]