Simul8

Should this be OK?
Pro Torker 67cc chamber 2.020 Intake valve 1.60 Exh valve 197cc.
XE268H Comp Cam
Eldebrock Performer intake. P#2101
Should have 9.2-9.5 compression. With Flattop Forged Pistons.

Ryan77

Sounds like a good setup for a daily driver, but personally I would go with a Performer RPM intake, it'll match those heads and cam better. On my old 350 I had the XE268 and the RPM and I liked it. From what I've heard, the regular Performer intake is not that much of an upgrade from the stock intake. Also, when Comp Cams says the powerband on that cam is 1600-5800rpm, they mean it :yesnod: . My old motor barely moved from idle - 1600rpm, and then it would stick you back in the seat, with the 4 speed I liked it, because I would launch the car normally at about 1500rpm. So, if you want power directly off idle, an XE262 might suit your better :cheers:


[Modified by Ryan77, 7:43 PM 3/17/2004]

69stingray

Do not know much about the Pro Torker heads. You should look into the Vortec heads. They flow well and have great port velocity for torque. You will need a dual pattern cam, like a Comp Cam Xtreme cam. The 268 should be fine, the Performer RPM may be a little better mateched to the 268. The 262 is not a bad cam for daily driver either and may be better suited for the Performer manifold.

Here is the graph for the 262, your performance should be a little better with Votrec heads, these heads are the Torque S/R heads. Great torque and a solid 350 HP:



Graph taken from: http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Dy...62H-10_001.asp

EDIT: See you already have a dual pattern cam. I think Comp Cam has cams with a greater split, I will look.


[Modified by 69stingray, 10:17 PM 3/17/2004]

Brown78

I had a engine built and was not satisfied. Never ran right. Bought a GM creat ZZ4 385hp fastburn with alum Vortec heads. You can bet it. All the proformance is right there. It will plant youn in your set!! You really feel it pull all the way across the board. And you get a warranty. :seeya Steve

cardo0

:iagree: with Brown78. If you don't want to build your own custom motor why let some shop have all the fun building the motor for you. The GM crate motors are very competitive in price and most dealers will install with warrenty too. That fastburn needs a few special parts but just do a search in archives as many C3 forum members have done the similar ZZ motor upgrade - also found in our tech tips under the TOOLS drop down on the tool bar above. :thumbs:

standup

I agree with Ryan77 and 69stingray.......this is a good street setup.......

....I'm using the Performer EPS, Dart 2 180cc/72cc heads and Comp XE262H cam.....with 9.3:1 compression.....

.....I'm happy with it because this has given me the torque to handle all the Stop & Go city traffic I have to deal with......I'm constantly taking off at idle, and it pulls great torque when I'm too lazy to change down a gear.......

.....the previous setup I had, which used an old Torker single plane manifold, was too high revving and useless for my driving style.....it couldn't cope with anything under 2000rpm.......

BTW, I agree you should match the intake with the cam, but I've heard the Performer RPM won't fit under a stock '71 Corvette hood....also, the Vortec heads need a special intake manifold, which may not fit under the hood either.....

:cheers:

Simul8

Hey, thanks for the help. I would like to go with the ZZ4, but my buget just doesn't cut it. I'll have this eng done for just about half of what the ZZ4 will cost after the other items I'll have to purchase for it.
I was wondering if the 268 was too much cam. I think I'll drop down to the 262.
I would also like to add the Performer RPM intake, but was worried about hood clearence.
Will it fit with a drop base air cleaner?

comp

you my have more heads than you need if you go down a cam ??

Ryan77

I didn't realize you had a '71, I don't think the RPM clears that hood, even with the drop base. So go with the Edelbrock Performer EPS, I think it's the same as the Performer, just improved. Edelbrock claims 5hp and 9ft/lbs over the regular performer. I your run the EPS, XE262, and something in the 180cc range for heads, you should have a very good street motor with plenty of torque :cheers:

Simul8

OOPPPSS
The heads are 167cc not 197cc. How much of a difference will this make?

73Ken73

You may think that your engine rebuild will be half the cost of a ZZ4 but if you run into problems with the engine builder then it may end up costing more. My engine needed to be rebuilt three times ( a very long story) and I ended up paying what a 502 would of cost.

Ryan77

I believe the stock heads are around 170cc, so it wouldn't be a huge improvement in horsepower, but you probably would still get a a good increase across the board, especially in torque (guessing that even though the intake port is smaller, they're design is better and they will flow better than a stock head). Maybe some Dart Iron Eagle in 180cc, or even a pair of aluminum Edelebrock RPM heads (also have 170cc runner, but flow pretty good) would also be good choices. Check out this dyno sheet from Comp Cams with the XE262 cam and Dart S/R :


http://compcams.com/Technical/DynoSh...62H-10_001.asp
:cheers:


[Modified by Ryan77, 8:59 PM 3/18/2004]

LiveandLetDrive

That one site with tons of engine setups from differen sources is a good reference. It really sold me on Sportsman2 heads. Unfortunately 200cc is a bit much, so something like Dart Iron Eagles at 180cc or any head at 190cc max should work well for you. Personally I wouldn't go that small (167) I think 180 is pretty ideal for street/torquey use.

-Chris

69stingray

QUOTE]OOPPPSS
The heads are 167cc not 197cc. How much of a difference will this make?[/QUOTE]

It depends. There are several features of cylinder heads that make them "good". One is port velocity, how fast the intake charger fills the combustion chamber. AFR & Vortec heads are good at this. If you take the average flow (cfm) and divide it by the intake port size (cc), you get a ratio of cfm per cc. AFR 180 are 1.14, Vortec are 1.17. According to ProLine website, if you take their flow number and divide by 167, you get 1.57 cfm/cc, which is excellent. I am thinking if the flow numbers are correct, the intake port is larger then 167cc. If the intake port is really 167cc, then I question the flow numbers.

http://www.procylinderheads.com/2236720167t.asp

The actual flow of the heads is important also. According to the website, Proline's heads have and average flow of 262 cfm (between 0.200-0.500 lift). For comparison, the excellent flowing AFR 195 heads have an average flow of 215 cfm.

Finally, you want a good exhaust port which is measured as a relation to the intake port flow. Proline is at 75%, which is average. The dual pattern natural of the XE262H cam should be a good match.

If the flow numbers and port sizes are correct, these are excellent heads you should be very happy with them. Torque generation shouldn't be an issue.

surfolly

With regard to the ZZ4 warranty, do you know if it is valid if I install the engine myself. Does it have to be professionally installed for the warranty to be honored?

standup

It has to be professionally installed for the warranty to hold...... :cheers:

69Sting

Good thread as I am just discovered I am pulling and rebuilding my L46 motor currently.

I chose the proformer intake for two reasons, 1. it fits under the hood the rpm is 3/4 inch taller and a drop air cleaner will work but could cause air turbulance and make you loose power at higher rpm's oppisite of why you would go to the RPM intake. 2. the carb I just had built is a spread bore and they don't make the EPS (that I saw) in a spreadbore, Square bore only.

Fevre

:nono: GM just updated their warranty on 12/1/03 and will warranty the labor even if not installed by a professionsal but it must be taken to an authorized GM dealer for inspection and authorization of repairs.

http://www.gmpartsdepot.com/warranty.htm


[Modified by Fevre, 2:52 PM 3/19/2004]

Brown78

:iagree: If you have to take the car back, or pull the engine. Right there is the $$$$$$$ differents plus the time involved. I have never seen a speed shop or engine builder that is in any hurry to fix somthing. after he has been payed. They have all the lines. It's the head guy, machine shop, the manufacture, "FAULT" Not mine!!!! But give me a little time and I can fix it for about $$$$$$$$$. I know, I have anchor sitting on the floor of my shop. Buy the ZZ4 long block alum vortec heads order it with the big cam. You'll have all you need for the street, track. I can't be the only guy who has had this problem? The same goes motorcycle engines. Buy the "Crate" it well be great!!! :steering: :steering: :cool: :seeya Steve

surfolly

Thanks for the info. I wanted to call Goautocenter today to ask them about the warranty, but they are closed on Fridays. I'm wondering if I purchased their version of the ZZ430 if I can take it to a local dealer even if I didn't purchase it from the dealer. I rarely hear complaints about the ZZ motors anyway! Does anyon know anything about Goautocenter? Their engines are priced about $200 cheaper than everyone else, not sure why..