garandfan

Can you painter types out there recomend what would be the best to use enamel, or poly base/clearcoat?

Pros, cons for both?

Trying to decide.

Thanks again.

Frank

sb69coupe

The real question is a bit more complicated. First off, I would not use enamel. Modern urethane paints are much better than the older enamel technology.

Then the question becomes whether to use base/clear or single stage urethane. The answer depends on what color you're painting and what kind of appearance you want to have in the end. For metallic colors, base/clear is the way to go since the metallic will lay much more evenly in the flat basecoat. Non-metallics don't suffer from this effect. If you're painting a non-metallic, do you want a more "correct" appearance or do you want a deep, wet look? The single stage paint gives a more correct appearing finish since the color and gloss are both provided by the top layer of paint. Base/clear gives a deeper wet gloss since the separate clear coat on top of the base color coat provides the gloss.

Hope this helps.
Shannon

garandfan

it's going to be monza red again, just have body repairs on all panels, and chips, so the whole thing is going to be redone. I am opting towards the PPG base clear coat set-up, but I don't want to suffer from the dreaded clear coat peel!!

What can be done to lessen the chance of the clear coat peeling?

Frank

Bill Oxley

agree 100% w/ sb69. in black, a single stage is great. metalics, bc/cc is better. The inbetweens, depends on many things. But definitely not enamel. Cheap, but will look cheap in 2 years, imo.

Good luck!

Bill Oxley

Ah, and then your next post: Preparation, Preparation, Preparation!!!!

Will be fine for a long long time if it is properly prepared and primed, go "exactly" by the PPG spec sheets.

sb69coupe

Prep the car according to the paint manufacturers instructions, and make sure to use only a single manufacturers products. Do not mix and match one brand primer, a second brand base coat, and a third brand clear. Use one system that is designed top-to-bottom for compatibility and you'll be fine.

Shannon

LFZ

really depends on how good you want your car to look? are you painting it yourself? i'd probably recommend a pro. block and prime the whole car, get every little bit of the old paint off the car..thats a must! go with a base coat/clear coat....i've seen clear coat peel with PPG, i personally use Sikkens base coat/clear. however a good paint job is based on how good the buffer/polisher is. good luck. :thumbs:

Glenn's 67 BB Vert

I use enamel as you can wet sand any imperfections out after the paint job or whenever later if needed red is about the most expensive other than maroon- With rubbing compounds you can get a "foot deep" paint job --but it's lots of work --my 2 cents worth --semper-fi--Glenn :auto: :party:

LAvetteman

I really believe peeling clears and bases for that matter are for the most part a thing of the past. I remember in the early years of base/clear, when it first came out adhesion problems were very common. But like anything else they have steadily improved paint technology.

sb69coupe

You can wet sand clear as well, and a single stage urethane will wet sand and buff exactly the same as an enamel. Modern urethanes offer much better resistance to UV, oxidation, etc than enamels.

Viken

just curious, i used that dupont imron single stage, and it seems like it chips very easy... was supposed to be so strong and durable, but doesn't really seem to be true... but i'm no expert, so i was just wondering if anyone had any opinions/experience with this type of paint?

feb18blacksunday

Spent a long time on mine. 6 coats of k36 and loads of wet sanding. Basecoat clear is my route. A little more expensive than the one step process. I paid a pro to shot my car and I'm very pleased. :thumbs:

mrvette

If you live in a state where that car ever sees the light of day....I"d NO WAY ever consider a clear coat.....how many decades have clear coats been peeling and yellowing off cars??? and for how long since 'they' have promised to fix the problem??? and you want to spend how much time and effort doing WHAT>> to your car, and have the clear coat go out on you in how much time???......like risk???

sorry, I beleive in one step urethane....now having said that...my car was painted some 15 years ago with a Ditzler 2 coat paint Radiance....blue oversprayed with Red/Crimson candy apple.....but it's urethane with coloring agent in it...so not a clear coat....yes, the finish is dying finally, the front fenders are showing the effects of sunlight....finally....

but a one step paint is superior every time,...too boot easier to match up and repaint/touch up....

GENE

tjl5709

Let me give you a perspective from an automotive paint chemist. They paint cars with base/clear for one reason. Durability. They may market it as better appearing, but they want durability. The cost to support and process/apply a BC/CC on a vehicle is very expensive. Delamination is almost always found to be poor processing. Yes, early systems were suspect, but now, no comparison.

Dupont, like any other brand, has different qualities of systems. Imron is a trade name that covers many systems (quality levels). Just because the label says urethane, doesn't make it a quality system. Yes, a urethane is the best technology to use, but there are differences & you get what you pay for. If your paying to have your car painted, find out how long they've been doing it, and how long they've been painting with the system they recommend. You want a person who knows what they are doing. Again, good results painting a vette is mostly (90%?) prep and technique. The top quality urethane paints from any of the suppliers are actually quite simular, you want someone who understands the unique processing associated with the specific system choosen.

As mentioned earlier, do not mix layers, but buy a whole system from a single supplier.

If you are doing it yourself, make sure you use a respirator (with new filters) as a minimum. Preferred is a hooded suit with pressure fed air. Urethane paints use isocyanates (the "B" component), and it will destroy your lungs.

A single stage (bc/cc in one package) has less complexity and is easier for the DIY, but they are not more durable. The pigments on the surface helps the UV light degrade the polymer film. Now, for a hobby car like a vette, which is cared for and garaged, this becomes a none issue.

BC/CC all the way............. :thumbs:

Corz

ahh the rumors of peeling..

I'd hate to ruin your parade guys, but the peeling happened because of poor preparation, there was nothing wrong with the clearcoat, nor the basecoat. It was when manufacterers skipped a coat of primer. Self Etching primer if very important on metal cars. ever see a Vette with an older base/clear? I'm not talking laquer either. I painted more then 20 cars over the course of 5 years (I'm 20) and I only had one car peel. My 69 Camaro peeled because I didnt use self etching primer over the bare metal spots.


now for the enamel base/clear debate, I've painted about 4 cars with enamel, my fathers C1 being one of them, and I cant tell you this.. it SUCKS. sure it may shine, but if you want any metallic to it you cant get it to lay out flat. it will always be choppy, or you'll run it instantly.

I'd say base/clear any day of the week. I like dupont but to each his own. I painted my 69 in 02 with dupont chromabase system.

Sigforty

I am getting my car painted with Base coast/Clear coat. I want a really deep mirror shine on my paint. The only way I know to get it is with a bc/cc setup. I am also going with Steel cities grey which is kind of a metallic/color changing paint. Some times it is grey, silver or green.

norvalwilhelm

I ran into this problem about 5 years ago and what decided it for me is a local painter told me I would get very sick without a respirator with a air line if I went base clear. He told me not to try painting without one.
I went Centarie? acrilyc enamel, red , put on 7 litres with a high volume gun, no spray both , then wet sanded and buffed out the finish. The paint is very thick, I just kept going around until I ran out.
This is a shot of the car taken this summer after about 5 years.
There are no flaws in the paint, those are clouds in the sky.
Double click to enlarge.



[Modified by norvalwilhelm, 8:50 AM 10/10/2003]

LemansBlue68

I've seen very good results with enamel used with catalyst. The wet sanding and buffing is the key to a "no orange peel" paint job. Many "production" body shops don't want to go to this level of labor but it's worth it if you're willing to do it yourself. I'm going to go basecoat/clearcoat system this time, though to try out the new technology.

All the tech sheets emphasize that the clear coat MUST be applied within 24 hours of the base coat or the base coat must be stripped and re-applied. I've a hunch that this could very well be the key as to whether the clear coat will peel later or not.

Nice pix and beautiful car, Norval.

Bill Oxley

I can only speak for PPG. Not stripped, but re-sanded, and an additional bc applied. Need to avoid bc being too thick. Then re clear within 24 hours.

joe73vette

I painted a 68 firebird last weekend with bc/cc metallic blue. It is SO EASY to use! If you are doing it yourself, don't use single stage. I put on two coats of base, two coats of clear in one day. You have to wetsand the next day or two or it hardens up and you'll be sanding for days! Joe


[Modified by joe73vette, 8:11 PM 10/10/2003]