Eric76

I want to improve the performance of my 1976 with an L48. I'm wondering if rebuilding is the way to go or better off with a new crate engine?

(Note: Not concerned about matching numbers)

Either way I wouldn't be doing the work (no place to do it, lack of knowledge, etc.)

Thoughts? :confused:


[Modified by Eric76, 6:38 AM 9/26/2003]

foundvettelifeisgood

If #'s aren't an issue, then it comes down to cost and quality. Do you have a quality engine rebuilder in your area? A new crate comes with a warranty and peace of mind. I don't mind winding out my newer engine. I think of it (the engine only) as a relatively new car.

Though matching #'s doesn't bother you now, it might later.

Let's say you go with the crate. I'm guessing that's $4-5k installed. It would probably be foolish to not address the tranny while you're at it. Let's say a Keiser 5 speed at $3-4k installed. Now you have $7-9k into your 76. How's everything else...suspension, t-arms, gas tank, frame, interior...?

If your car is your favorite year and color vette and solid in the other areas, then the decision is much easier.

Just some "big picture" things to consider. Good luck. :cheers:

redwingvette

If you are going to pay some to do the work than a crate motor is the only way to go. I put over $1200 to rebuild my motor and than added another $1500 for the heads, rockers, intake, etc.. That was cost of parts and machining. I still had to do all the work. And No Warranty

Edzred72

Other things to consider are time and research. Building your own creates "component matching" issues wich in turn creates "trial & error" tuneing and matching. Does this cam work well with these heads, what intake for this carb...what jets should I run, what head gasket, pistons,..etc..etc...etc. The sum of the parts are never equal to the whole. (same holds true for our cars) Crate motors can elimninate all of this guess work....and...providing you pick a reputable builder, you have tech support when it comes time to tune. Although I only rebuilt the top end of mine...I'll never do it again. IMHO Crate's the way to go.
Good Luck with your decision.
Eddie

Eric76

I've been leaning towards the crate for many of the reasons you all listed in your replies. I think that's how it's going to go.

One more question - where to get the motor?

I've looked at GM Performance, Edelbrock and BluePrint. Does anyone have any experience with any of these? Are there others you'd recommend?

Fevre

I would first decide on a price range and performance level then look for the best deal. I would stay away from the edel engines since they are basicaly a GM shortblock with some edel add ons that are overpriced, better off just getting a ZZ4 or LM1 crate eng. I bought a LM1 crate eng and kept building more power with it till I was at about 400hp with the stock shortblock.

Ken74Conv

I would recommend the crate motor. I bought a ZZ4 from Sallee Chevrolet. Their price was good and they were very helpful. Talk to Tom.
They are in Seattle but the freight is less than the sales tax if you buy it locally. :cheers:

fauxrs

:iagree:
If you are not doing your own work and you have no knowledge, you might consider getting some knowledge - rebuilding an engine is not as hard as you might think. Doing it right....requires patience and some research, some special tools and a good clean place to work. but if all of that is not going to happen then of course a Crate engine is your best choice.

You must understand that crate engines are not perfect, they can have all the same quality problems a home built engine can have - it just happens less (a lot less usually) often. Dont believe me, do a search on stroker engines (was it AR engines?) the owner of the shop is backing up his work and that is good to hear.

Lastly, the warrantee offered by GM on its crate engines is the most laughable of jokes. The warantee covers ONLY defects in materials and workmanship, and I've heard that in general it covers only the part that fails, it does not cover damage to other parts due to the other parts failure, and it doesnt cover labor. (It does cover labor - IF and ONLY IF the dealer installs the motor). it doesnt cover any inconveninece etc...etc...

It lasts 12 months, which on the surface sounds good, but even a cruddy re-ring should last this long. GM replacement engines get a 3 year warrantee. but even those motors have a huge list of exceptions. Its better than nothing of course...but not a good point to base the whole decision on IMO

Scooter70

I would agree with everything said above and I only quoted the last bit of it. I was ready to send AR an order when the chit started to hit the fan in Colorado and with the other guys. Granted, Oliver has had great luck with his motor. Personally, I'm going to wait for details of the ZZ383 to be released and then either get that, the HT383 and do a quick cam swap, or have a local shop build something. I've had enough 100K+ mile GMs to know that they last when taken care of. I guess I just believe in them. Maybe I'm naive. Poll all of the ZZ4 guys and see what they think of their GM crate engine. I've never heard anything bad about any of them.

My two pennies. Take them for what you will...


[Modified by Scooter70, 7:54 PM 9/26/2003]

Crash Dummy

Eric76,

Consider a few things while making the decision. First of all, how much money do you want to sink into this project and how much improvement in performance do you want over that stock L-46 engine? It's your budget, so you must have some numbers in your mind. That alone will give some of the members a better chance at answering. Second, do you know of a good shop that you(or friends) know do good work at a fair price? That would be one determinate I would consider when thinking about rebuilding what you have. Getting 300HP(& more) out of your engine is not that hard to do with a cam, pistons & some good valvetrain work to compliment the improved HP. And a decent set of headers to help with the flow.

OHSIXX

I just happen to know a great engine-builder and went with him. Had I not known him; crate would have been my choice as well.

Personalized attention to your project is important and that is what I got going with a local guy. Glad I did! :)

joeveto

I like the crate engine idea. I had mine rebuilt last summer. It took seven months and cost at least as much as a crate engine. For all the stress and money, if I had to do it again, I'd go with a crate engine.

As others have pointed out, the peace of mind that comes with a warranty is hard to beat...

7T9Shark

I stuck the same amount in mine that a crate would have cost me to achieve 300+ HP. If I had known it would cost that much, I would have probably got the crate for all the reasons you see posted above. My machinist did a great job and it runs great, but it gobbled up 2 months of otherwise cruising time this summer to get it done.

Get the crate. You could go from slow to go in almost a weekend.

Marc80

I built mine with a crate motor from AR Racing it is a 350 with aluminum heads that gets over 400 hp. It cost $2700. I bought a transmission from TCI that was built to withstand 550hp. I think, with the stall converter it was around $1500. It is a great combo with which I am very happy. :D

It is the miscellaneous costs that will get you. rebuilding suspension, brakes, etc, etc (heavy on the etc.) But really, around $4000 in this package was a great deal. It replaced an old 200 hp motor that looked like a BBQ.

You can find AR Racing elsewhere on this forum. The reason I chose to buy an motor from Mark Lim was that I could always reach him and he was always willing to answer questions.


[Modified by Marc80, 12:51 AM 9/28/2003]

79VetteMike

How much power do you want, how much do you want to spend and how much can the rest of the car handle?