norvalwilhelm

On the weekend Mike gave me a set of spindles from his 78 parts car. I was waiting for a winter project but couldn't resist the urge to do one now. I cut the spindle in 2 just above the brake caliper boss bolt , beveled the cut surface until it was only a thin, very thin point, added a equeally beveled 1 1/2 inch spacer block, jigged the whole thing and spend about 1 hour with a mig welder building in the ground down spaces.
I then ground the welds and polished the area with sand paper and finally sand blasted.
I am posting a few pictures right now but will hopefully next week do the other spindle documenting with pictures the steps for others if they want to go this route.
The only thing I have left to do is paint but I wanted you to see the surface before it was covered up with paint.
Double click to blow up for detail.





[Modified by norvalwilhelm, 1:51 PM 9/17/2003]

Shark Racer

Looks very clean, Norval. I'm very curious to hear how it does once it's installed and on the ground.

You can't even tell it's been welded!

goofygrin

Maybe I'm dense, but what does this buy you?

Shark Racer

It's the proper way to lower a car. (Extended length spindles...)

goofygrin

:confused:

Isn't this going to hold the upper and lower A Arms further apart?

Twin_Turbo

No, this is the way to correct front suspension geometry, relocating instintaneous center. It increases negative camber instead of it going pos like on the stock setup.

Norval, I REALLY like the spindle, damn I wish I could weld like that....


[Modified by Twin_Turbo, 2:11 PM 9/17/2003]

MikeC

It also changes your Camber and caster curves. It makes the curves alot tighter

Amazing work. The only way you can tell you elongated them is the lack of casting flash!

Is the plan to test them this year before she goes away for the winter?

norvalwilhelm

MikeI won't test them this year. I made one just because I was bored and wanted to see how it would turn out. I will take my time and do the other one next week.
I can lay down an acceptable bead with a mig welder and just kept making pass after pass building up the deep "V" I made in the joints.

A bit of grinding cleans up the surface easily.
I will probably get the weld's x rayed just to satify myself that they are complete crack free.

Last night comming off the expressway and a high rate of speed I slid around the curve, the front tires sliding out and suddenly the back really let go and came around quit a bit, never lost it, scared me for a second but the car stayed flat even with the light 280 pound springs and light sway bar.
I do scuff the front tires alot on hard corners with the higher roll center. Right now I am running studs inplace of the extended spindles that does the same job but I prefer alot thicker material then just a long 5/8th stud. These spindles will replace the stud.
It also involves redoing my bump steer again but it is a long winter.
I will also add a spreader bar like Brutus made.

Twin_Turbo

The spindle height is only dependant of the kingpin height as opposed to the lower ball joint (since the lower arm holds the spring and shock), you CAN make a drop spindle and have a longer spindle at the same time, it would involve adding the necessary material on the underside of the spindle but if you look at the spindle (and the angle there) it's much harder to do than doing it on the top.

norvalwilhelm

Twin Turbo you are right, I could add the material below the wheel spindle and thus increae the spindle overall length and at the same time lower the car but this weld is under alot of load where as the upper ball joint sees little load.
The suspension books also do not recommend dropped spindles to improve steering geometry.


[Modified by norvalwilhelm, 2:39 PM 9/17/2003]

Twin_Turbo

I know Norval, my reply was aimed at pacin's question. I wouldn't trust my welding skills (or better lack of) on the top part of the spindle, let alone the bottom.

Marck

WashingtonRacer

can i send you mine

Twin_Turbo

I have 2 lying around too LOL :lol:

ZD75blue

I really do need to learn how to weld.

Sweet job on the spindle! :party:

American Boy

I have an idea that I'd like to share. Maybe it's not possible but what if we could just weld a spacer under the spindle lower attachement point and find a balljoint that has a longer bolt. It would lower the car and rise the lenght of the spindle at the same time.

Just a tought.

Stephan

Twin_Turbo

That would raise the car (adding spacer between spindle and lower arm), the spindle mounts under the lower control arm on the Vette.
Adding spacer under the spindle has no effect at all since it only makes the mounting hole longer and does not move the spindle relative to the lower arm/ball joint.




[Modified by Twin_Turbo, 5:02 PM 9/17/2003]

Desertdawg

Damn. thats some nice work. Hats off to you. :thumbs:

norvalwilhelm

One of my orginal ideas was to just weld a 1 1/4 diameter specer 1 1/2 inches long on top of the spindle and ream a hole for a 5/8th diameter bolt and use a bearing in the upper A arm in place of the ball joint. A real easy way of doing it but I learned that the 5/8th bolt would be about 5 inches long and that didn't appeal to me so I went with the cut/welded extended spindle.
Our existing upper ball joints are only a 5/8th diameter stud that has it's pivot point 1 .250 inches above the top of the spindle. So in effect our spindles at the top are only a 5/8th stud 1 1/4 inches long so I figured if I do a really good welding job and have an area of at least 1 square inch it would be alot strong then the ball joint itself.
I did dimantle a good ball joint and take measurements just so I understood how strong a normal ball joint is.

Our 5/8th ball joint studs have an area of .306 and stick 1 1/4 inches out of the top of the spindle while my weld is over 1 square inch and 70,0000 psi tensile strength.
I am still going to check into getting the weld xrayed.
As far as making more sets it involves a couple of hours of preperation, about 3/4 hour welding followed by another 1/2 hour of grinding.
This is for 1 spindle.
As a labor of love it is ok but I would rather spend the time shoing horses and the money is alot better shoing.

reidry

Norval - Nice work!

I'm definitely interested in this same mod for my '69 and getting my bump steer down to a minimum.

Would it be possible to get Van Steel interested in getting a run of these made by some fabrication house or something? I know the labor is intensive, but in quantity jigs could help make the process repeatable and minimize the setup time. Machineshop time is what ... $60/hr, if each set took 4 hours and you provided your own spindles maybe $300 for the mod? Maybe an extra charge if you want them X-rayed/magnafluxed? We each do our own paint or powder coating.

Ryan

Flareside

Norval, nice work!

What are the spindles made from? They look like cast iron. I'm suprised you were able to mig weld them.