Paul L

Thought this might be of interest!
http://www.ncrs.org/forum/tech.cgi/noframes/read/95512

Desertdawg

nice read Paul, Thanks for the link.

:cheers:

DJ Dep

Hi Paul!!! HA! Weird coincidence!!! I check in and Pacin tells me you posted something for me. I went to the website you listed. Some misinformation there from some of the experts (lots of torque-worshipping), but intertesting that folks still remember that engine. I found a source for my aluminum ZL-1 conversion of my '72. PAW has aluminum 427 short blocks. Just what the doctor ordered :) When I sell my '98 I'll have the funds to build the '72. I am going to replicate as much as possible the white 1969 ZL-1 that was built. All I need is black striping on the body and an L-88 hood and the side pipes. And mine will have a Turbo 400.

Dep

Paul L

Good to hear from you! And you are still hunting for HP! All kidding aside, a ZL-1 clone will be quite something. BTW, it is not terribly obvious but that thread is from the NCRS Technical Board.

PRNDL

Dep, Are you going to buy the GM ZL1 block?? ($5k I believe) I started a thread about that - as in, how much would it cost - not too long ago.

Coincidentally, the author of that NCRS thread linked above (Joe Lucia) was building a ZL1 engine for his 69. Not sure what the status of that project is... MJ

hmmm... I had bookmarked a website that had all the GM part #s for the bare blocks (with prices). The ZL1 was $5k, the 454 bigblock was considerably less! :lol: I thought GMpartsdirect had it...




[Modified by MNJack, 9:25 AM 9/27/2003]

DJ Dep

Paul: This part especially made my hair stand up...

"Say a Z-28 engine with the 30-30 cam makes peak torque and power at 4500 and 6500. If you increased the stroke from 3.00" to 3.75" with no other changes, you would observe that the torque and power peaks would drop to about 3600 and 5200, respectively. Peak torque would be increased, but peak power would be about the same. The 377 would be a better street engine because if would produce more average torque and power over the useable rev range. It would idle better and feel much less edgy and would be a vastly improved street engine because of the greater torque and more usable torque bandwidth."

The 302 was a RACE motor. It was a race motor that you could buy for the street. It was NOT about torque, it was about RPM. Stroking a 302 would give you the torque at the EXPENSE of RPM. If they want more USEABLE power on the street then change the rear axle ratio to one that will get TO that RPM quicker!

This guy knew what it was all about:

"I've been lucky enough to own 3 69 Z/28s. There is nothing like the sound of a 302 at 7000 rpm."

And this guy said it even better:

"Really, if you think of a 302 as a bored 283, there is no reason to be edgy. however, what made it edgy was the cam and the heads. For the heads and cam to flow at 7000 and 8000 rpm, there could be no bottom end. The 283s never ran the big valve big port heads like the 302 did.

Even with Chevy's conservative ratings, the 302 was 290 hp at 5800 rpm. That is FI 283 land, except that the 302 didn't stop at 6000 rpm. Also noticable is that the torque was 290 at 4000 rpm, about 1800 rpm higher than where other engines made that amount."

Then they went way off base comparing a 302 Ford engine with Chevy and raving about the longevity of the Ford 302. The Boss 302 was NOT a NORMAL 302 Ford engine. It was like a 302 Chevy...a race engine released for the street to meet minimum production requirements. The only thing the Boss 302 shared with the standard 302 that was around 'till about 8 years or so ago was the cubic inches. But we can't expect Chevy people to know that ;)

Good to see you again and I hope everythig is going well with you.
:)

Dep

Paul L

And it's good to hear from you!

DJ Dep

Jack: No GM block for me. My money tree died :lol:
HOWEVER, I can get a 427 ALUMINUM SHORT BLOCK KIT:

BLOCK:Aluminum 4-bolt main block, block bored to 4 1/4 bore, honed for rings, dry decked, line honed, freeze plugs installed

CRANKSHAFT: Forged steel-custom ground on rod and mains, Micropolished with oil holes chamfered.

RODS: Factory 6.135 rods, steel, shot-peened, resized, fitted with new 3/8" chrome moly rod bolts

PISTONS: custom-made forged pistons in the compression of your choice

RINGS: Moly top compression ring with chrome oil ring

BEARINGS: tri-metal bearings matched to crank

CAMSAFT: choice of solid or hydraulic

TIMING CHAIN SET: double roller gears and chain-matched set

BALANCED ASSEMBLY

All for $7099 from Performance Automotice Wharehouse.
If you want the above with heads (Edelbrock Performer 2.19/1.88)
Lifters, pushrods, oil pump, and gaskets, it goes for $8995.

I plan on using the GM heads with bigger 2.25 valves plus other parts of my own choosing, so all I need is the short block. But understand, these are NOT crate motors, they ar KITS you assemble yourself. Still...a lot less expensive than buying the block from GM!!!!
So for $2000 more I get a complete 427 short block all ready to go :)
It'll be light enough to build in my basement and carry out to the garage with my buddy and his 3 sons. Pretty cool huh? ;)

Dep



[Modified by Dep, 8:47 AM 9/27/2003]

GDaina

This statement brings back many memories...during the late 60's and early 70's, I lived in a double, and my first engine rebuild was in the basement. This house was old, with very narrow staricase. The L-89 was assembled, complete, except for the distributor and carbs. I used long bolts, one in each corner, and for the life of me, I haven't a clue how four of us were able to get up the stairs with the motor...Akin to building the proverbial boat in the basement. We still talk about that adventure today.


[Modified by GDaina, 11:58 AM 9/27/2003]

Chuck Harmon

Dep,

Great to hear from you again. Your love for the 302 has been on my mind a lot this year. I have decided to convert my L88 to a 302. I figures a 2.66" de-stroker crank will do. I intend to humble even the Honda S2000 redline!

Chuck
:jester

Shark Racer

As if hearing those pipes @ 7000 rpm didn't **** off the assistant provost of Santa Clara University...

-Steve

DJ Dep

George: Trust me...my buddy's three kids will be doing most of the heavy work ;)
Check the thread about the ZL-1 manifold. You may already have it sold :)

Chuck: You crazy SOB...the Hondas and Toyotas better watch out!!!
Have you heard anything from Wes???

Dep

pillowmeto

did you see the Zl1 replica at carlisle, just thougfht it might be of intrest. It was painted the same as the yellow one from rogers corvette who ften advertisers on these banner ads. It was very well dont but he took it to the dyno and pulled 400-450 hp, i dont rember the exact figure. It was pretty nice looking, i liked it.

MAtt

DJ Dep

Matt: I'm surprised there aren't more ZL-1 clones. Plenty of yellow and white Vettes from that era floating around. Engine cost might prevent it though.

Dep


[Modified by Dep, 8:28 AM 9/29/2003]