1house3kids0vette

Let's say a fella buys a Vette from a mechanic selling for a friend. Agrees to certified price then calls back and says "Got to Parking brake, parts are going to be too much I can't sell it to you for the agreed on price" You can have your deposit back or take it as is" Asked 3 times how the frame was, and was told each time it was good. When I pick it up for the As is purchase clarify that only thing needed is Parking brake, and horn. Yes everything else is good. Guy works for a major chain in Canada. After driving 2 hours home and finally getting appointment for pre-safety, find out that the frame is shot at the cross member in front of the spare holder and other spots. Is this misrepresentation or buyer beware?

The Money Pit

In the US one mans junk is another man's junk if the other man is not wise.
As is means"AS IS".

76Stinger

There is a fine line here between what was meant by "sell as is" and misrepresentation by the mechanic. If that statement was meant to cover just the brake stuff you probably have no recourse. Did it mean "the entire car" as is? Hmmmm

The fact that you asked specifically about the frame brings up another problem. He said it was good but did he know? Ignorance of condition of an auto for sale and sold as "good" has been to court many times. I personally would ask for my money back based on his statements about the frame, but he probably is not obligated in any way to give it to you.

My .02 - take your creeper, knowledgeable buddy, flashlight, and whatever other tools you might want to "inspect" BEFORE purchasing. Usually once the dinero changes hands, it's yours.

Good Luck!

STW :seeya
Robert
76Stinger

gdh

Misrepresentation is just cause for return in Ontario as well if not legal action. Also check with the Ontario Ombudsman and if all else fails there is always Silverman Helps on CityTV. Got to his place of business and try to get it cleared up with your $ back first.

Hobbes Blk '80

Oh yes... he sold it "As is" but according to my Legal Studies class you have several courses of action

1) Misrepresentation. Easy to prove, only problem is you have to get into court first, and that may take some time. You could have the contract "rescinded" or whatever...as in, make it null & void, returning the car to him & the money to you..

It is very believable that he would lie about the frame, and in order for misrepresentation to give you a course of legal action, it has to have impacted whether you would, or would not have made the purchase. Not Price.

Obviously, had you known the car needed "full restoration" you would not have made the deal.

2) Kill him. Go back there with a baseball bat and beat the bloody christ out of him. Let him come after you, and simply deny it. Legal studies tells me that one mans word is as good as another. Besides, you don't have a motive...The car was sold as is! :smash: :smash:

page62

Who does this guy work for? Canadian Tire? You can always place some pressure on him by threatening to complain to his employer.

If you actually do end up complaining to the employer, you can continue up the chain of command. And at some point, you can even threaten to call in the media, like that Silverman dude. But good luck actually getting the media to help you. They have a million requests on their desks, and they only go for the juicy, cut-and-dried stuff... :yesnod:

1Asterisk

Has the title exchanged hands?

You may could cancel the check, then just give it back to him. There are verbal agreements and such, but if he lied then he broke the deal.

As is, is "as is". He may claim that he just didnt know, then claim that since it was stated as an "as is" sale, that it would be your responsibility to check for such things.

I dunno. I'd call someone who knows a lawyer to see if you can get some advice as to your options.....

Contract law can be a funny thing.

Rottenrob

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lolg:

BUGGSY1970

Talk to him and see if he will take it back and return your money. If he won't go see a lawyer and see if you have recourse. If you do tell him what your lawyer told you.

If your lawyer tells you no chance go back to him and wisper in his ear that if he doesn't do the right thing you can't control what will happen to him. Threats that everyone hears mean nothing but bravado. Threats delivered calmly and quietly without witnesses are taken seriously.

1house3kids0vette

I don't want to post who he works for but it is a major chain. I'm going to check with a lawyer today and see what he says about the misrepresentation. Doubt the media type would care about this guy I don't think he is a major seller of cars but he certainly got me.
As for the go back and kill him, it certainly crossed my mind but then who would I be able to say sold me the car in the first place. Thanks for all your post.

68shark

Another thing to mention to your lawyer....if the guy is a licensed mechanic (thinking Ontario here), you may have some recourse which could put his license on the line. He's either dishonest or incompetent....either of which could cause him some "grief". Adding his employer to the complaint (perhaps he was doing some of his personal car selling on/at their premises and with their knowledge?) could only compound the problems for this guy. Hit 'em where it hurts!!

1house3kids0vette

He defintely did the work on the car there and I picked the car up in the parking lot. I would think that makes the deal his managers issue as well. Heven't talked to the lawyer yet but hope to today.

Tom73

Just a thought, if he represented the car as having a good frame then it could fall into a misrepresentation situation. The key is, can you prove he misrepresented the car? Did he put it in writing or an e-mail that the frame is good? Verbaly stating that the frame is good IS legal representation. But how do you prove that. Then the other issue is the old "to the best of his knowledge" to frame was good. Another of those that is hard to prove misrepresentation.

I would talk to a lawer first to see what your options are in your area.

tom...

MikeC

I'm sorry in advance for what I'm going to say.

Parking brake work isn't expensive( $500 max I'd say)... Didn't it raise any suspicion when he wouldn't certify it? When he was doing the certification he probably found out the frame was crap and he wasn't putting his name to it and he wasn't willling to stick the $ into it to get it certifiable.

I think your legal recourse is minimal as you bought it "as is".

Him saying the frame is fine is his personal opinion..... and this is where you'll get him. He's a mechanic and if he's licensed, you have him since his opinion is educated. I figure you might get his license at the most..... but $ wise I think you don't have much recourse for recouping any financial losses.

68shark

I agree with Mike almost all the way here. The fact that he is indeed a mechanic and his license may be on the line is precisely the leverage needed to extract an appropriate financial settlement. Here's a possible approach to him:

"There is an easy way and a hard way to deal with this. The easy way is you return my money, I return the car, nothing further happens. The hard way is I write the Ministry, I write the President of the firm you work for and give them both the full story of your dishonesty. I'm going to further bring legal action against you and your employer for damages. Maybe I win, maybe I don't, but just by bringing the action, I'll bet the ranch that you will pay far more in terms of your employment relationship and possible revocation or suspension of licence than this situation is worth. Further, because you are a mechanic, I believe a judge will view you as dishonest and award damages to me. If I were you, I'd take the easy way out, do the "right thing" and refund my money. That way you keep your job, your licence and this stays between us. The choice is yours. If I don't have my money within X hours, I will proceed with my other steps without further delay."

Then do exactly what you said.... :yesnod:

Paul Borowski

:iagree: Very Well said-put the ball in his court, let HIM decide HIS FUTURE!!!

1house3kids0vette

No need to apologize. I appreciate the honesty and responses. By this point he said he had put in about $350 of parts and his own labour to get the wheel bearings, U-joints and other wheel issues sorted out. With the P brake at $500 or $600 he was past what his buddy wanted for the car. After checking on the parts prices I saw I could get a kit cheaper than him ordering every part from GM and thought that if all I needed was a P brake and horn I was coming out even or ahead of the deal. My beef is the obvious problem with a frame that anyone with experience should have seen. I'm a relative novice and it may end up costing me but it seems that his word as a mechanic should be worth something.

Corvette ED

Have you called him and told him about the frame? I would tell him we have a major problem here, the frame is rusted through and you misrepresented this car. AS IS is AS IS however this is a clear case of fraud.

Robert N

to make a 'misrepresentation' simply means to state as a fact something which is false or untrue.

to constitute fraud, a misrepresentation must be false [or an omission must make other statements misleading], and it must be 'material' in the sense that it relates to a matter of some importance or significance rather than a minor or trivial detail.


Asked 3 times how the frame was, and was told each time it was good. When I pick it up for the As is purchase clarify that only thing needed is Parking brake, and horn. Yes everything else is good. from 1st post

Legally, it's fraud. As for proof, the leverage as has been said before, his license and his job. I would place money on the fact that he is not allowed to conduct personal business while at work and/or on company property. To allow it would create a potential legal nightmare if someone was injured as a result or a vehicle damaged. Company property = company liability.

RJR99SS

well its pretty easy. He wanted to sell you car A "as is". Car A was the car that only needed a parking brake and had a good frame.

What he actually sold you was Car B, which had a bad frame.

Thats misrepresentation. If he didnt say anything about the frame and you bought it, you'd be out of luck.

Thats 1st semester law school stuff. The next 5 years of law school are figurint out what you can do about it.....