dath

In trying to fire up my new engine, my Napa rebuilt starter decided to give up the ghost, so I took it down to exchange it as it has a lifetime warranty... The new starter I got seems to have some very strange issues and I'm curious to know (before I take it back) what's going on... The history is that my original starter (when I bought the car) died the day I got my car home. I went to Napa and got this rebuilt unit as the car was my daily driver at the time. I put that on and it worked for a couple of years (probably about 5000 miles or so) with no issues. Then when I swapped in my new 383 and tried to fire it up, it worked for a while, then the solenoid made the clicking that is normally associated with a dead battery, then wouldn't even make a click. We tried a couple other batteries and nothing... So we took the solenoid apart and noticed that it had a very screwed up contact, so we flipped the contact over (less than half of it was being used) and put it back together. Again, just the death clicks, then nothing... Decided to just take it and exchange it.

First off, they didn't have the exact same starter, but a similar one. As it turned out, the similar one needed a different length bolt, so after one more run to the parts store, I had it mounted up. On the second or so attempt to start up my new engine, it didn't quit spinning right away after I let off on the key, but it did disengage from the engine (and no, the engine didn't start). It then shut off in about 3 or 4 seconds. Strange I thought, but maybe just a fluke. This happened several more times, once or twice it even stayed engaged in the flexplate, but most times it had disengaged and continued to run, but now it wasn't shutting off on its own, so we had to disconnect and reconnect the battery to shut it off.

Also, it seemed to overheat and quit trying to start the car all together much more easily than I thought it should have.

Do I return this starter, or am I doing something wrong? I really don't see how it could be related to the amount of shimming or anything since it is actually disengaging from the flexplate entirely when I let off of the key most times (no grinding or anything, just nice happy starter running faster and faster) and continuing to run. It doesn't do this every time either, but it got progressively worse and in the end kept me from breaking in my new engine as it stayed engaged twice when the engine started.

tshort

I'm no starter expert but all I can say is I've been happy with my CVR mini high torque starter.
Barry (bgrice), do yo want to chime in... :lolg: :banghead: :banghead:


[Modified by tshort, 11:37 AM 8/12/2003]

dath

Well, this is embarassing, but I think there were two separate problems... I had the leads on my starter hooked up incorrectly so that it was always getting juice to the solenoid, through the resistor that's perhaps supposed to be inline with the coil... Seems that there was no resistance on this wire anyhow, so I'm not sure why the starter didn't always try to go as soon as the key was turned forward, but anyhow...

I ended up getting a Proform 66272 permanent magnet starter. It sounds way different when cranking than the stock starter. It doesn't sound like it's straining as much, which is good. However, after all of my fireup woes and whatnot, the engine started up with less than 2 seconds of cranking after bolting up the new starter. My dad didn't even hear me crank the engine over:D

bloodvette80

First make sure it is wored correctly. Theres the main +12V that goes to your battery, then theres one labelled "S" that one is the one that goes to the ignition, and it has 12V only while you have your key in the "start" or crank, position. Some alternators now, especially refurbished ones by BOSCH, put a solenoid with another contact, I think its labelled R. and that one only has 12V output on it while the engine is cranking. No idea where you would use that.

second, understand that theres no way that starter motor should run unless the solenoid is pulled in. Becuase in addition to levering out the gear that turns the ring gear (flywheel) it also pulls a plate inside which makes contact from the +12V (from the battery) to the contact that powers the motor. So once again, the starter pulls in, a lever pulls out the gear so it meets the ring gear, AND theres a flat plate that presses against the 2 contacts that now provide 12V to the motor.

I think that you either have it wired wrong, or the starter is wired wrong. theres no reason why it would continue running the motor after the solenoid drops out. something is giving it 12V and shouldn't be.

Change the starter.

mrvette

Blood has it totally correct there, but on ething, the R terminal goes to the COIL side of the resistor wire (steel) in the wiring harness of a BREAKER point ignition.....AFAIK it's the only time used....what it does is jump out that resistor wire so the coil sees max power from the battery when cranking, and obviously so does that terminal R, by hooking the battery terminal ALSO to terminal R as well as the starter, when cranking ONLY....
this provides a super hot spark to be sure to ignite the fuel on a rich condition or any other say 'cold' condition to quicken up the starting....

NOW you really don't want to apply that FULL 12 volts to the hot side of the coil all the time as the currents are silly high at the break open point and it will fry the points...that's why the ignition is wired for running with a resistor....
chrysler used to use a white ceramic resistor in that circuit, as such it was a replaceable part....dunno about Ford....but GM used a clamped into the harness piece of steel wire, giving the required resistance....
IF you look carefully at the + coil wires on an old breaker points car you will find the clip has TWO wires on it....ONE is the resistance to the coil output of the ignition switch, and the other goes to the starter R terminal for reasons stated above....

GENE

Vettastic

An R terminal is used on a points ignition, but not used with electronic ignition.

bloodvette80

well, thanks, now I know.....

bloodvette80

hey, i was born in 1980, and I've had 18 vehicles now, all were HEI. I remember when i was a kid, I had to get up and walk all the way...... to the TV to change the channel. these kids nowadays have it so easy with their remote controls, no wonder they're all fat. :lolg: