dath

If it isn't one thing it's another. The saga of my "simple" 383 drop in is continuing... I cannot count the number of trips I've taken to the parts stores (yep, three different stores and a hardware store) to get new bolts, misc parts, tools, etc, etc... Anyhow, I was all slated to get my new 383 up and running tonight, but after cranking her over several times (probably about 10 good sets of cranks) there was no rumbling noise at all :( To make matters worse, it wouldn't crank any more after that, I just got the fatal clicking of the solenoid that's familar to all who have ran their batteries dead. Well, as it would turn out, I tried another battery from my dad's truck (and one from mine as well) and I didn't even get the click. Dropped the starter and took the solenoid apart and found a very nastly looking terminal, so I cleaned it, flipped it over (to give it a new contact patch) and put it back together. I got the same nasty clicking sound, then nothing (I did check the motor while it was off and that worked flawlessly). I gave up for the night as it's late and I have no hope of getting a new solenoid, even though the old one didn't look too bad other than the part of the terminal that I flipped over so it wasn't exposed any more...

I'm wondering how long it should take before she starts up for the first time? My fuel system was dry and had to pump fuel all the way to the carb, which it did (I have a clear plastic filter on there temporarily so I can see)... I checked for spark and that looked good. I'm wondering if maybe I just had the timing too far off, but I am more suspicous that I wasn't getting good fuel delivery as I never really heard it try to grab or fire. Also, I wasn't really sure after priming the oil system if I'm done with that, or if I have to go back to it after a while and do it again?

Sorry for all the rambling, I'm just really sad that I couldn't get it started tonight as this has been taking a lot longer than I was hoping and I have a list of other chores that have stacked up. My wife is going to kill me if I don't get to my other stuff soon :cry

Crash Dummy

See a thread somewhere below this.... you are not the only one that has engine start-up issues. Mine are self inflicted, but good info to try at it again tomorrow afternoon. I go to inspect & title the '71 first. I at least want one of these vettes on the streets that I can use as a relief from the other one should one decide to be a pain in the azz. The *red* one is being a real big one right now. :lol:

dath

I'm feeling quite a lot less grumpy today, so I think I'll give it another shot if I can get a replacement starter and possibly a new battery that I trust a bit more. My two main concerns are timing and fuel delivery. One or both of them had to be at fault for not having it crank up in the first place... I think I'll reset everything to 8 degrees BTDC and check that the #1 post is lined up more precisely this time. Any suggestions to know if the carb is delivering fuel? I dumped a bit of fuel directly into the intake, but then it wouldn't crank any more because of my fubar starter. I wasn't sure on the 4150 if the float bowls would drain fuel back down the line again, but the float level seemed very low if they are supposed to stay full. Stuck some paper in there and it was around an inch before the paper got wet. :confused:

The Money Pit

When you work the throttle by hand the carb should squirt fuel.If not you won't get even a pop out of the engine.I typically set the timing to around 8 BTDC,and pour a shot of fuel into the carb prior to hitting the key.Most engines I've done this way fire on the first turn of the key.I've had a few carburator barbeque's too.If the engine won't pop,turn the distributer till it does,but limit your crank time so the starter doesn't get too hot.

waddell64

When my old man brings his old Mustang out of the barn after sitting in there during winter, he always pours a squirt of gas and a quick shot of WD-40 into the carb. The car starts the first time everytime.

dath

Hmm, I was wondering about that... I'm used to my old qjet, so I wasn't sure exactly where to look to see it squirt fuel out. I didn't see it squirt any fuel when I worked the linkage by hand quickly like I would expect, but like I say, wasn't sure where it would squirt out. I know that it did get fuel all the way up to the carb as my dual feed lines weren't tight and my wife spotted a fuel puddle on the intake, thankfully before it was too large. How high should the fuel sit in the float bowls when the engine isn't running? I wasn't sure if it should be all the way up by the plugs or not... Unfortunately I've got a mechanical pump, so I don't really know how to get it a good supply of fuel other than by cranking.

The Money Pit

The fuel level should be level with the bottom of the sight plug holes.If you're saying the level is an inch below the bottom of the sight plug hole,then loosen the lock nut and raise the float level till the fuel just trickles out of the hole.
:cheers:



[Modified by The Money Pit, 1:32 PM 8/11/2003]

dath

Yeah, I understand that bit, but I guess what I'm wondering, is will that work when I have no fuel pressure (engine not running)? The pump will not be pumping until I crank the engine over... Definitely the fuel isn't up to the sight plugs like it "should" be, but I thought that it would drain back down while the engine isn't running?

dath

Anyone know about adjusting the float level with the engine off? Is there some "factory" setting I could perform, or is it actually possible to adjust it like normal looking through the sight plugs? I'm hoping to try again tonight and it'd be really nice to know the fuel delivery is actually happening...

Brettmc

Take off your fuel line at the carb and put it into a bowl and use a towel as a splash shield. Have someone crank it over. You should see gas coming from the fuel line. A good rule of thumb is to take the bowls off and adjust the float level until the float is level when the bowl is upside down. This will get you into the ballpark. Make sure #1 is at TDC and install the distributor with the rotor pointing at the #1 terminal. You might need to rotate the dist. a little while the starter is turning until it fires. If this doesn't work, the cam might installed wrong.

Brett :thumbs:

dath

I can see that fuel is making it to the carb as I have a clear plastic filter, but I think I may try your suggestion anyhow just to make sure it seems like an ample supply is being pumped up. As for the float adjustment, if I take the bowl off, will I need a new gasket, or can I reuse the old one? This is a new carb, so I would have expected it was adjusted from the factory, but you never know... I followed Lar's proceedure for setting the timing, that way it should fire at 8 degrees BTDC instead of mucking around with it at 0 degrees and having to advance it. I was probably not careful enough when I lined up the rotor and the post on the distributor as it was hard to know when they were in perfect alignment. I don't think it ever got any fuel while I was cranking, as I never got a put-put, backfire, or anything before my starter went caput.

Brettmc

I bought a new Holley a few months back and it had the blue non-stick gaskets that are reuseable. If yours aren't blue, you'll need to pick some up but I imagine they will be the blue kind. Look at the float with the bowls off. Adjust if needed. If you can get 8* BTDC by eyeballin the dist., my hat's off to you. If you put #1 at TDC and stab the dist. with the rotor pointing at #1, you'll hear signs of life at cranking when the float bowls fill up. You'll prolly hafta work the throttle during cranking just like if the engine was cold. If it won't fire, work the throttle and see if the accelerator pump is shooting gas into the venturis. It should. Also, are you sure you're gettin spark from the plugs?

Brett :thumbs:

Brettmc

If you still have problems tonite, email me with your phone # and I'll call collect. I know, I know, that's cheap. I hear that from my wife all the time. ;)

Brett :thumbs:

tshort

First, you need at a minimum one more person helping you, I had three. I was in the car starting it and watching RPM, water temp, and oil pressure. My girlfriend was outside with fire extinguisher in hand looking for leaks or fire. One friend was at the overflow tank filling as needed with water (I left the cap off so that it would burp out any air) and he could also adjust timing. My last friend was at the carb adjusting idle.

Now, it aint gonna start with no fuel. So if when you push in throttle by hand at carb and see no fuel squirt then it's not going to start. But, in my case it took FOREVER to get the fuel up to the carb and squirting. Your float should still work without the engine actaully running (experts correct me if I'm wrong). I also went through a battery and a half getting it started for the first time.
Another note, did Mark tell you what baseline to set timing to? Mine is at 17-20 degrees at idle. So the standard 8 may be way too retarded. But then again I'm running without a vacuum advance and my MSD Pro Billet has the 21 degree advance bushings in it (giving me a total of 38-41 degrees).
Hope this helps and you might try to get some more buddies to help out. Just provide beer, that always works. :lol:
Good luck, let us know how it goes tonight.

dath

Brett, I set the timing to 8 degrees BTDC by aligning the balancer mark with the 8 degree mark and then pointing the rotor at the #1 tower on the distributor cap. That's how Lars's paper described doing it as far as I could tell at least. It seems like the "correct" method to me, but like you said, when I took auto shop in school, I think we always set it to 0. Of course we abused the heck out of the engines we used then and I've forgotten most of what I learned... My email address is dath@ficker.net if you want to send me your #, so I can just call you :D Hopefully it'll just fire right up.

Travis: What, two helpers aren't enough??? Ack! :D I'd get some more buddies, but it is embarassing when things don't work and none of my friends are very mechanically inclined (other than online buddies) :D I don't have a tach in the car, so no need to watch that. As for temp, it'll boil over, so no need to watch that either:D Just watch the tach under the hood and the timing, and add water if needed with hose. Have three fire extinguishers sitting nearby just in case:D Mark said 34 degrees total advance. I have the vacuum advance disconnected for the time being... Any need to oil the engine again, or is one oiling enough?

The Money Pit

Plug your vacuum advance back in,set the initial to 8 like you mentioned aligning the #1 tower to the rotor and it aught to fire. I assumed you checked the compression stroke by pulling the #1 plug and cranking till you feel the pressure with your finger in the #1 cylinder. Once you're sure you're on the compression stroke,pull the distributer cap to verify the #1 tower is where the rotor points. The Chevy V-8 is very forgiving and will run with the timing waaay out of wack,so 8 degrees is ballpark.

I'm goin outside now to listen for the Whoohooo! when you get it fired up.

Brettmc

How'd it go??

Brett :thumbs:

dath

Well, I did get it fired up!!! However, I had to shut it back down because of two problems...

Problem #1 was that I had swapped to a longer alternator belt as the stock belt put the alternator too close to the valve cover. The longer belt was too long :rolleyes: I need to take both belts down to the store and see if they have one in between... I did put the short one on for now (actually my dad did while I ran to the store to solve problem #2)...

Problem #2 was that the tachometer that we had didn't seem to work at all while hooked to the TACH lead on the HEI unit I have? I bought a generic tachometer that has a setting for V8 when I went to the store... Any idea if that will work?

The last issue which we overcame is some "shipping damage" on the carb... That is one thing I failed to mention before (just didn't occur to me), but the float bowl vents got a bunch of wood stuck in them because some boob set something heavy on top of the plywood that was covering the crate and the float vents poked through... We *THOUGHT* we got everything out, but we didn't. I took the primary metering block off and there were small wood particles floating around everywhere. No obvious clogs, but we cleaned it out and put it back together. Probably it just gave us the confidence we needed. The previous day we still hadn't managed to get enough fuel to the carb, so that's why the shooters weren't shooting... The shooters started working before we decided to take the bowl and metering block off of the primary side...

Another issue that came up (I think I'm cursed) is the starter I picked up (found my receipt for the lifetime warranty on the old pile of rebuilt crap) is acting up in a different way than the last one... I think I'll post a separate question about that in case nobody sees the question in my dissertation here :D The problem is that sometimes the motor will keep running even after turning the key off. Before you say that it is too tight in the flexplate, I don't think that's the problem. The reason is that sometimes it stays engaged, but sometimes it doesn't, it will just run the motor, but not the flexplate. When first cranking, everything is fine, it's not until I let off the key that it either decides to disengage and keep running, or it just keeps turning the motor. Doesn't do it everytime, but it did do it quite a few times. It also seemed to overheat fairly easily and wouldn't even give us a "click" until we let it cool down, even though it wasn't *THAT* hot... The overheating and excessive desire for it to keep running didn't seem related. Any clue how the solenoid could allow it to disengage from the flywheel but keep power to the motor? We had to disconnect the battery and reconnect to stop it.

dath

We didn't plug the vacuum advance back in (I didn't see this message until just now), but I can try that. It never did start easily and we got several massive fireballs from the carb while trying to start it:D I think we have a few on video, I'll try to post a video including some fun bits from my startup and my constant criticizing of my dad:D I get grumpy pretty fast when things aren't going well... Just out of curiosity, is the vacuum advance really needed? Is that perhaps why it seemed to want to start when I pushed the timing past 8 degrees? I don't know where the timing ended up, but I made marks on the bottom of the distributor next to the intake and on the intake so I could put it back to 8 (as close to 8 as we could figure on anyhow). The timing was probably closer to 15-20 degrees where we started it, but it is really difficult to tell with no timing light. I think someone should make a distributor with 1 degree marks (milled in) all the way around the base, then you can mark the intake and 0 degree marks when you install it... That way you can change the timing without a light in situations like this... Hmmm, maybe I'll pull the dist and make some marks sometime:D

It was really cool to hear her fire up! I think I want to replace my Dynomax super turbo mufflers with something different when I redo my exhaust to a more reasonable size. They just don't sound right, but I'll have to listen to it more after I break it in... I was going to do it with open headers, but my dad and wife were both opposed to the idea as my dad didn't want to go deaf and my wife didn't want to anger our neighbors too much:D

Brettmc

Glad to hear ya got her fired!!! That's a load off, right? What do you think the problem was before when it wouldn't start up? Keep us posted on the how that first drive goes.

OOps, just now saw your post-before-the-last-one. It must have been the wooden carb problem holding you back.

Brett :thumbs:


[Modified by Brettmc, 10:53 AM 8/12/2003]