Eddie 70

I am excited about it and can't wait. They have a 78 that is from St. Louis they are working on right now. Someone is gonna be happy in St. Louis. I am going to have to wait until Sept. for mine to be ready. This is the biggest bummer for me.
I posted earlier about the bellhousing runout because they mentioned that they check the runout on the bellhousing. I was just curious about why the bellhousing runout is something that is now being checked. Any thoughts on this?

rponfick

I'm envious. Just curious, are they still working on their 6 speed. Did they say anything about it. Wonder what the top two gears will be. I have a 4.11 rear end and need some deep overdrive ratios. They had a post on the 6 speed a while back, but haven't seen anything recently.

QuickVet

:cool:

Eddie 70

There was a post a while back by Robert D. Carguy that had some new info about the 6 speed. It is the viper tranny, so it should have quite a bit of OD for you.

Flareside

I ordered a TKO from Keisler last week too. According to them, it will be here around the first week in September.

Are you going to run the one piece driveshaft yoke that they provide? I'm probably going to use one of the "take apart" C6 yokes, I'm still searching for the best deal. Mark Williams has one, but it's expensive at around $225. With the yoke they provide, you have to install the driveshaft without the u-joint caps in place, then tap them in with a hammer with the shaft in the car. No biggie for installation, but what about disassembly? Nightmare... you'll either have to cut the joints out with a torch or remove the rear end. Forgetaboutit!

I also thought about buying the shifter alone from them, then building my own kit, but once I learned that they machine the upper case to accept the new shifter that idea was dead. Too much work for too little savings.

Flareside

rponfick, do you have to run the 4.11 with a 6-speed? I had a Vette with a 4.11 rear and a Richmond 6-speed, and first gear was just about useless. The T56 has a very similar first gear, so you'll have the same situation. The ratio works out to about 12.3 in first gear, and the shift light is on faster than you can shift! Most of these OD transmission are built to work well with a rear ratio around 3.08 or so.

Think about the TKO, the OD is .68, so your 4.11s would put you around 2500rpms at 70mph. Not bad at all for a motor with a decent cam in it. You'll also avoid the $4200 price of the T56 upgrade.

69Rat

$4200 ?? I thought the T56 upgrade was running around $3k ?? :nonod:

norvalwilhelm

. I was just curious about why the bellhousing runout is something that is now being checked. Any thoughts on this?


Bellhousing runout has not changed over the years it is just that people are now becomming aware of the problems. Scatter shields are bad for alignment. The instructions with a new transmission warns that runout can not exceed .005 or damage to the transmission will ocurr.
Image your transmission and crankshaft not ligning up and every revolution the transmission input shaft is put through a flexing exercise. The bearings will not last and you will blame the transmission, not the faulty bellhousing.
I run a normal Ford TKO Tremec with a 1/2 inch adaptor plate. It was the cheapest way to go and still use the Tremec. I used the stock supplied shifter with a mustang shifter handle and ****.
With the .68 overdrive even 4.11 gears are fine on the expressways. 2200 at 60, 2500 at 70.

Flareside

Keisler's T56 kit sells for $4195. So, to move from the TKO and its .68 overdrive to the .5 overdrive of the T56 you have to pay $1200 more, or over a 40% premium. The T56 will also require cutting the crossmember and trans tunnel.

I can understand the T56 if you're planning to cruise at very high speed like a C5 or Viper can do, but how many C3s are running at 160+ for an extended period? There are a few that would do it, but not many. I think many people will install the T56 just because then can, when in reality their car would have performed better with the 5-speed (although I can completely relate to installing something "just because" I want it :lol:)

rponfick

Hey Flairside, you seem to have the handle on this subject. No, I do not need to run the 4.11 with a 6 speed. Glad to have your comments on the price difference. You mentioned a different shifter; isn't the shifter still part of their package deal? The driveshaft yoke deal sounds like a bummer. What is your read on the overall install? Is it truely a drop in with no car mods, or are there crossmember or other issues? Can you use the stock bellhousing and clutch setup? Do stock bellhousings have a runout problem?

I gather you don't still have the 4.11 with a 6 speed. I was worried about the low 1st gear ratio. Thanks for the confirmation. I think I'll go with the Keistler. Sorry for all the questions, but you seem very knowledgeable and unbiased. :cheers:

Flareside

The shifter makes the Keisler kit, everything else can be bought cheaper somewhere else. Unfortunately, if you don't what to cut a hole in your trans tunnel, you'll need Keisler's custom shifter that comes in their kit.

I talked to Keisler about the install, and they insist that it's a total bolt in, no mod installation, but I haven't done it myself yet. Did you check out the TKO installation that they C2 guys documented? If not, check it out, they took lots of pictures.

Sure, you can use the stock bellhousing, but if they offer to index yours for free it's a good idea. Any bellhousing can be out of alignment, stock or aftermarket.

I believe there is a T56 available that has a first gear around 2.60 or so (most are around 3.00), that tranny would probably work ok with your 4.11 rear if you really want 6 gears (and are willing to pay for them...)

You gotta do lots of homework to find the correct gearing and transmission for each individual car and usage, just keep looking and asking questions!

Marks69BB

Hey guys; sorry I'm late here. I'm putting the Keisler TKO II 5 spd kit in now and it does have some unusual steps. The way they make it a bolt in is you have to tilt the tranny toward the pass side and tilt the bellhousing so you can angle in the tranny and bellhousing together. Then you have to reinstall the clutch assembly with the bellhousing partially installed to the tranny.

The stock bellhousing can be off and especially the aftermarket scattershields will most likely be off so it is important to check for runnout. My lakewood scattershield was offset .020" in relation to the crankshaft which is alot IMO.

The shifter is only a minor part of the kit. They machine the rear portion of the tranny housing and add custom-made parts to it to obtain the correct stock shifter location.

I've been contemplating also what to do with the yoke/driveshaft coupling. I think the Ford C6 yoke is the one that will fit but I'm not sure.

I'll keep you posted as the journey continues! :smash:

Brettmc

Is Keisler installing it for you? If so, how much do they charge for the install?

Brett :thumbs:

Marks69BB

Nope - It's me and my assistant (myself) and an occasional helper (I) :rolleyes:

Currently waiting on my offset dowelpins from Summit to correct the runout offset and continue the install. :sleep:


Oops - just noticed this wasn't intended for me; this is what happens when you get old! :sad:


[Modified by Marks69BB, 7:33 PM 7/29/2003]

fauxrs

Yes the c-6 yoke is the one you want with the TKO - you definitly want to get a take apart yoke as opposed to the concept of tapping in the caps yourself - that sounds like a very bad idea to me.

I was able to get a break apart yoke from my local driveline shop from an old lincoln - required a little machineing and some custom made caps but in the end i got the right yoke for about $65 - this might be hard to duplicate if you dont have a guy like Tim at driveline auto service - his collection of used parts is stunning.

Eddie 70

I have been thinking of letting them do the job just so I don't have to fool with it. He said it is usually only a 5 to 7 hour job depending on the amount of machine work they do to the bellhousing. I have a month to think about it or work some more OT and just pay to have it done.

TexasShark

Hey Marks69BB-
would you let me know how the install goes. I was talking to another forum member and he recommended saving the extra 1200 Keisler charges and just go with the GM Tremec. He stated the only mod was the cross member. No mention of shifter mods or yolk changes.


[Modified by TexasShark, 5:03 PM 8/1/2003]

Dwayne 76

Whats the cost on a 6 speed these days?

0Robert Hall

The GM Tremec will have the shifter in the center of the car (wrong location for your Vette) instead of in the factory location, and it will have the 26 spline shaft as well.