flynhi

Anyone tried installing C4 calipers and rotors in a C3? Parts should be plentiful and modestly priced, calipers are lighter, rotors larger. And they will probably fit in my 71" wheels.
Comments, please..........

aharte

I was under the impression that C4 brakes were junk. They're lighter than C3 brakes, but the C3 ones are much beefier. Maybe that's just the early C4's :confused:

Twin_Turbo

I was gonna ask the same thing, why on earth would you want those crappy c4 calipers? Sure, they're light but they fade like crazy and do not have a lot of clamping force on the rotor. If you change it to something newer, either get the C5 ones (like 70LS1 is doing) or something aftermarket.. steer clear of C4 calipers, even the ZR-1 ones aren't all that great.

vette_c5c6

Why replace the C3 breaks they work perfect.

Twin_Turbo

yes, for you maybe but some people need/want a bit more.

I once tried to slow down to turn into a gas station on the highway and because of the brakes I completely missed it, it wasn't fun and I'm determined to make certain that will never happen again. The brakes are pretty good but not for 120+ mph.

jlsru

I would not go to C4 brakes either.I like the brakes on my 75 a lot better than the brakes on my 86.Go to the C5 brakes .

aharte

If everything's working right, the stock brakes should be able to take that. Maybe tires/suspension/alignment are more of what you need. Or the front/rear proportioning could be messed up. I doubt that one stop faded the brakes enough to keep you from the tires' threshold. I've found it takes A LOT of abuse to fade the stock brakes on my C3 - and that's with average pads and fluid.

In my opinion, the stock brakes with proper pads, fluid, proportioning, spring/shock balance, tires, and air ducts aren't significantly worse than any other brake design out there. The car's inherent high speed stability maybe isn't so great, but that's not the brakes' fault (if proportioned right).

vette_c5c6

Twin Turbo, If you do remove your C3 brakes I will gladly take them off your hands I will pay for the shipping and send you enough money to buy a 2-4 pack of bud.

Twin_Turbo

It was not one stop, we don't have a keep your lane system here so driving on the highway is a lot of lefts and rights (there's always people on the left side that are driving real slow and belong on the rigght side), braking and accellerating. My calipers were fine, they were all rebuilt, the lines were all new, the proportioning valve was fine, all braided hoses, rebuilt MC, good booster... and so on.

Twin_Turbo

Shipping will be insane, you can get some calipers in the US for much much less. Why would you want mine? There's nothing fancy about them, hell they don't even have SS liners like most of them do by now.

mrvette

TT, what he is saying in American parlance is to stay with your system in so far as it's much better than anything the C4 has to offer, and he is correct....

NOW having said that.....the primary reason is the rotor thickness, ours are 1.25 inches thick, the exact thickness of the late vette/caddy race cars....
BUT the race cars are much larger in diameter....13-15 inches or so...but then again, they got the bux...we don't....typically....I bet those rotors are off some later large heavy truck type vechicle....hard to imagine tooling up for some few race cars.....
a seldome mentioned option for dumping our calipers and still keeping the same rotors, is using the calipers off say a 73 Pontiac Grandville/Bonneville...the old heavy land yacht series, they take the same rotor thickness, have very similar front spindle construction techniques, and MAY possible fit on the vette spindles, our spindles are unique however....
so you could possibly have minimal troubles mounting one of those single piston floating calipers to our setups....they worked fine for stopping 5500 lbs cars....should work fine for us too.....
now this is just for the fronts.....I dunno about the rears, but you might check into Caddy, they had lots of 4 wheel disc cars in the 70's-80's....land yacht type, and may have rear calipers that fit our thicker rotors....

obviously if you increase rotor diameter, you need ~17 inch wheels or more...

tons of fun, this re engineering our cars with more modern components, and such....

GENE

norvalwilhelm

mrvette what is wrong with our stock calipers? They have 4 1 7/8 pistons and with the hydraboost will lock up the wheel any time you want. What more is anyone looking for in a braking system. Install Performance Friction metallic pads if you need repeated stopping power. the hotter the pads get the better they work at the cost of the rotors. With Performance Friction pads installed I made repeated 100mph panic stops and the 3rd stop was better then the first.
I do run organic pads to protect the rotors most of the time.

mrvette

Ahh,, I don't know for sure Norval, I just think the stock calipers are just not worth much, between the stainless mods around for decades now, and the late O ring pistons and all the stuff of one variety or another, so it seems there is allways a bunch of problems with the stock brakes....and frankly, I am so used to it now, I don't even care anymore....time to get rid of them, and all the attendant problems, I feel....I just may start looking at stuff for doing just that....but the rotors are just fine....

GENE

Twin_Turbo

Oh, okay.. but where did I say I was intending to run C4 brakes, I certainly am not.


[Modified by Twin_Turbo, 10:44 PM 7/27/2003]

evilsmf

Ill send you my C3 brakes for a 2-4 pack of bud XXX :jester Holland is a great place :cheers: :lolg:

VegasJen

GENE, i'm with you on this one.
our brakes really do work just fine under normal driving scenarios.
the problem is what happens when you throw other variables into the mix. figure each caliper weighs nearly 20#. that's unsprung weight folks, the worst kind. it has alot of leverage and alot of mass. it takes alot to accelerate that mass up and down and alot of spring and shock to control it, all resulting in suffering ride quality.
then there's the issue of clamping force vs. leverage. larger discs with greater leverage will allow the same stopping power with less effort and heat generation.
as for c-4 brakes on a c-3, it's not likely to work too well, even with '96 GS (best of the bunch) rotors and calipers. those type are notorious for caliper flex. plus you have to use the thinner rotors to fit the calipers. thinner rotors gives you less mass for heat disipation. additionally, the calipers have different total piston mass/fluid volume requirements meaning a necessary change in M/C as well. if you were to do this, you would likely not see any significant difference in performance.
the real trick item would be a set of Z06 front rotors/calipers, which are supposed to be structurally stiffer calipers and maybe the stock rear rotors with a pair of wilwood dynalites.
i'll give you a report once i've fabricated that system. :thumbs:

mrvette

Clutch, in fact I feel the quality of any replacement parts we purchase these days is just junk, don't matter anymore where it's made......

I have fought for 3 years now a weird overheating problem....convincec it was NOT the radiator, or fans.....well this summer the radiator finally sprung enough of a leak to manifest itself....and the fan was caught red handed....fine...thought the troubles were over....
over at a buddy's house, rebuilding the top and front of his '86, and my hose blows on a trip to the parts store....making another trip necessary....
hose was 2 years old.....

and it's NOT related to price either....just everything these days in auto parts seems to be junk.....don't matter the source....

I swear I think it's deliberate to force cars off the road....the design fuse is set, and the damn cars last untill the payments are over, then the detonator goes off, and forces another round of new car payments....damn JUNK!!!

and I feel vettes are no better off then any other car...just more plastic, that's all.....

Sorry, I"m just SO pixxed off right now about cars in general, I feel like nuckeing the entire fleet....vette too.....

GENE

flynhi

Clutchdust:
I like the sound of the direction you are headed. Please keep us informed of your progress.

NHvette

I'm not looking to replace the calipers from stock, but I just saw these on sale at Jegs:

Wilwood DynaliteII - 4 pistons - for $69 each :

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...86&prmenbr=361

:seeya

Twin_Turbo

is that good beer?? We don't have that stuff here :)