StarLord

Alright, I am starting a new thread to continue asking for advice. If you'd like to see the old one, it's at http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=520239

So here are some old questions that never got answered as well as some new ones.

I saw this term in another thread. "Purist" Is this someone who thinks vettes should be restored to all original and factory spec parts or what is it?

I was wondering. I seem to have noticed (and maybe I'm imagining things), but people seem to prefer (or it seems more predominent) the 68-74 year Vettes. Is this my imagination or is there a reason for that?

Is T-Tops a Coupe with T-tops? I mean, can you call a T-top car a Ccoupe or is Coupe only a car with a solid roof?

What is an average price I can expect to pay for the Vette that I want? A ballpark figure of what might be appropriate. Let's see. A 79 Manual T-Top. Good frame with no rust/rot. Don't care about the paintjob. Decent interior. Decent, running internals with minor problems at the worst. Don't care about the stereo deck. Any central features I am failing to consider?

I know that old cars and powerful cars drink lots of gas. Is it possible to setup a 79 Vette to have decent power (Say, run 1/4 in 12) and yet be more if not really fuel economical? (No nitro though)

Can anyone recommend some good books/website where I can learn more about cars and how they work and such? Like a mechanical book for dummies or something.

Captain Morgan

Let's see what I can answer for you.

That is most likely what they were referring to, but it could be just that the car should stay stock, with no body mods, wheel upgrades, etc. The NCRS (National Corvette Restorers Society) are the ones that think everything should be completely factory spec. These guys have VERY stringent standards and this is probably THE most expensive part of the vette hobby.

Well, that all depends on who you talk to. Some guys prefer these years, other people think the chrome bumpers are ugly (those people are off their rockers ;) ). Some others don't even like the sharks. It's all personal preference. One thing about the 68-74 vettes is the age, but also the fact that those were the last big block cars. You also have the advantage of being able to install any exhaust on the 74 and under that you want, without fear of the smog ****'s.
Both. 63-67, the coupe was a solid roof. 68-82 the coupe is T-top. By the way, T-top stands for targa top, which, in the truest sense, is a single removable roof panel. With the older body style cars, there was too much frame flex so the body was stiffened by putting a bar down the middle. Most people think T-top is called that due to the appearance, which isn't true.

I would say around 5,000 to 7,000 American, depending on the condition of the various things you mentioned. Paint is rather expensive, so I would argue down the car a bit if it's really bad. However, if the body is in good shape, you probably wouldn't get the price down much lower than 5 or 6. It would be a good idea to see what it will cost to repair the items you mentioned so you at least have some sort of leverage.

What kind of fuel efficiency are you after? You would probably have to go to a fuel injection setup, which could be a bit pricey. The other thing would be to install a 5 or 6 speed transmission and the appropriate rear end gears for better highway mileage. With a Richmond 6-speed, the proper rear gears, and the right engine, I would imagine you could get into the 12's in the quarter and possibly get 20 miles per gallon on the highway.

Go to amazon.com and look up automotive. You could also pick up a Hayne's manual for the 68-82 vettes at your local parts store and read through it. It will give you a good idea of what you have in store for you if you work on the car yourself. Also check out this site for general info: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/


[Modified by Captain Morgan, 10:17 PM 3/24/2003]

StarLord

Wow. Great answers Capn, thanx. Some really helpful stuff there.

Here's another one.

I don't know why I was so fixated on a 79 when 79 and 78 look the same. As far as I can find, the only big difference between your average 78 and 79 coupes was that the 79 had the bucket seats of the 78 pace car and the later 79s had the lower limit on the speedometer. Now I swear that there was something else I didn't like about the 78. But I can't find anything now.

Can someone fill me in. Did I miss any other big or small differences between the 78 and 79 worth considering? Something else that one comes with that the other lacks perhaps?

LB66383

I ran across an extremely clean '79 yesterday. Excellent paint and interior, lots of new maintenance parts. California car, very clean underneath. I believe it was an A/T. He was asking $10K, my guess is he'll get in the neighborhood of $9K. So figure from there.

Captain Morgan

You pretty much nailed it. No other major differences. Seats and speedometer's can be changed too. So if you find a 78 that you like in your price range, but it has the older style seats, you might want to consider it because the 79 style seats will bolt right in. I'm not sure if you would have to use the rails also, but either way, it's not a difficult swap. If you get a 79 with an 85 MPH speedo, you can put in a different one. There are a few places that will rebuild your old speedometer any way you want. You could put in a 250MPH speedo if you wanted to, it's just a matter of putting in the right gears to drive the speedo so that it's accurate.

StarLord

Cool. Alright, here's another one. For a proper paintjob, you first sand the body and then paint it right? Do you have to remove the body shell from the frame or can you get at all the proper spots without that?

Also, when I see designs on cars (like flames on the front, lightning on the sides, etc) are they painted over top of the main coat or are they done at the same time as the main coat? If on top do they last or wash off after a couple of years?

When C3 owner's wash their car, how do they do it? Do you hand wash, use a high pressure washer or go through a car wash?

NHvette

My ears were ringing from the first thread. Clutchdust summoned me to
talk about the rust issues with you. All of my tech posts so far (well - most)
have addressed the issues of rotting steel and the repairs that can be
(and have been) done.

First, the frame. Of course, the frame is the foundation of the C3. The frame
rusts in several likely places. Most likely is the exposed area just in front of
the rear wheel. The end of the main side rail often rusts out. Also, the
rear kickup and crossmember that meet there in a three way corner. Most
times, the rot is confined to the inside corner - thus out of view until the body
is lifted. A long thin screwdriver may prove useful for probing these areas.
Other problem spots on the frame are at the front horns that attach to the
front bumper brackets and the side frame rails, between the #1 and #2 body
mounts. Luckily, anyone that has to replace a frame can do so with common
tools and some muscle (helpers). Also, most frame rot can be repaired - but
there come a point where you just shop for a used frame. I reached that point
and found a rolling chassis and rear body for $1200 USD.

Now, body rot is what really sux. WHAT ? body rot on a fiberglass car ?
You betcha !! The entire passenger compartment is reinforced with a metal
"birdcage". This exists as the windshield frame, down the front door pillars,
back along the rocker channels, up the rear door pillars , across the roof, and
up the roof support bar (back to the windshield). The common areas for rot
are the four corners of the windshield frame. Once these start to rot out,
water is allowed into the birdcage structure - and all hell breaks loose - fast.
Luckily, this rot is easier to find than the frame rot. The top corner of the
WS frame can be felt with your fingers reaching up and behind the header
trim. The lower corners can be seen in part by looking in through the WS.
Simply removing the two kick panels in the front interior will allow you access
to the #2 body mount and door pillar area. Take these off to inspect - surface
rust should be expected, but it should hold up to a poking with your
screwdriver. Likewise, there are access panels in front of the rear wheels
that can be unscrewed to view the area of the rear door pillar and #3 body
mount. The rear wheel must be removed to look in here. Externally visible -
are the #1 and #4 mount reinforcements. Look to see that these metal plates
(riveted to body) are not rotted away. Last check is the integrity of the rocker
channel area. This is the intended lift point, if ever removing the body shell.
Reach between the frame and the steel rocker channel. Pull and push it in and
out. It should be very solid. If it moves in and out with easy, you no longer
have a rocker channel.

Now, go to my website and check out the miserable frame and body rot in
the '75 pictures. (see sig for link)

I think I'm gonna write up my first tech article on this topic. I type this all out
at least once a week. I'm betting once a day as spring gets into gear.

Had the fever - but my temp is rizin' :reddevil :seeya

StarLord

Damn. Now that is a very very nice post. Very detailed, explanatory, technical. I will need to do some more research to figure out what all the parts and spots you mentioned were, but this is the type of info that's great to have when looking at cars. I looked at your site and I think that if you combine your post/article with some pictures (such as the ones on your site), you'd really have something great. (Explanation and visual aids) :party:

Captain Morgan

They may remove some items such as headlight housings and doors, and they always remove all weather strip and trim work, but the car is painted while on the frame.

Usually that sort of work is done during a full paint job and is applied on top of the main color, then followed up with clear coat. A paint job should not wash off. If it does, then the painter has a lot of explaining and you should get a huge refund. ;)

This is a personal preference, but you will find that most will hand wash.

StarLord

http://www.howstuffworks.com/

WOW! Thank you soooooo much for recommending this site to me. I've spent about an hour browsing through it and I understand SOOOOOOOOOOO damn much about cars now. So many of those threads before where people were talking about cams and headers and such make sense to me know where as before I was like "Yeah, its a part somewhere in the car. I wonder what it does". This is a great place for me to start my quest into the mysteries of cars. The articles are written very well but more importantly, the visual aids are fantastic. Relevant, easy to understand and pertinent. It's amazing but after spending that hour researching, I actually mystified my bro (who has his own car and knows a bit about them) when I came in and started discussing octane, compression, spontaneous combustion, inline/v/flat engines, transmission gears, etc. I'm trying to get him to read this stuff because he too is fixing his camaro up and needs to know stuff like this. It was a nice feeling though. :cool:Thank you.


[Modified by StarLord, 12:05 AM 3/26/2003]

StarLord

Alright, a couple more questions.

What does OT stand for? I've seen several thread topics starting with this acronym.

What about WOT?

Can you have 4 valves per cylinder in an engine and only have single cams? If not, can you put dual cams onto a single cam engine?

Are l42/l81 specific engines or categories like SB/BB?

Can a dry/wet sump engine be converted to the other? Or is there more to it inside the engine than simply the bottom of the crank shaft chamber?

Do 78-79 Vettes come with 2 or 3 point seatbelts?

Up to 76/77, Vettes were Stingrays. Do 78-82 have a name?

I remember when The Fast and the Furious came out, people brought all their cars to the theatre and made a little meet/show out back before the movie. I saw several of them showing off either their engines or exhaust sound perhaps. They let their car idle and popped the hood, then with their hands pushed/pulled something under the hood to rev their engine. Would this have been the throttle on the carborator? Is this a safe/undamaging thing to do? Can you do this on a fuel injection engine?


[Modified by StarLord, 5:06 PM 3/26/2003]

StarLord

My bro bought a pair of Corvette magnesium valve covers for his camaro. I've decided to help him out with the sanding. (He's planning to sand and then polish them). Wow, what a job. 3 hours of elbow grease and I'm maybe 1/4 done on one of them.

Anyone have any advice on good ways/methods to get the paint off of them and sand them down?

Frank75

SEE IF I CAN HELP...

StarLord

Alright. Just some clarification please. Is it possible to put dual overhead cams onto a single overhead cam engine? (If you wanted to for example replace the single valve heads with dual valve ones?) I don't know how they are held in an engine yet so I wonder if it's simply a matter of replacing some sort of cam holding bracket or if theres a hole in the engine wall which holds them in which case there's no where to put a new one.

Also, do valve covers get hot? If so, will any two sided adhesive work to re-attach an emblem to a valve cover or do you need some special sort of heat resistant auto adhesive?

Captain Morgan

Most of these were answered, I'll clarify a couple of them.

The correct numbers for the above, at least concerning 78 and 79 vettes, are L-48 and L-82. If you look at the sticker on a new vette, it has a designation for every option. Those options are abreviated as RPO, which stands for regular production option. If the option starts with an L, it's an engine option. L-48 is the base engine for many of the later C-3's. L-82 is the higher performance engine for those same C-3's. Some years had many different engine options. Some years had only one engine, with no optional engines.

As said above, there was a time when Stingray was two words, "Sting Ray". That designation was from 63-67. In 1968, the C-3 body style (commonly referred to as the shark) came out but it did not have the Sting Ray name. The name came back in 69 but as one word, Stingray, and it continued until 76. Some people continue to call the 77-82 vettes Stingrays because they have the same body style, although the name is not attached to the car.


As for the cams, no, you can't put a dual cam in an engine designed for a single cam. As suggested above, you may want to pick up some books by David Vizard. Or just do a search on engines in Amazon.com or another online bookseller.


[Modified by Captain Morgan, 9:24 PM 3/27/2003]