mpro71vette

Does anyone have these? Are they worth it and what are the advantages over regular calipers? I am thinking of getting them but they are a little pricey. :cheers:

MN-Brent

Id go for it if I had the money. Im not sure what type of seal they are using, but I would guess O-ring. There was a article in Corvette Fever or Vette mag that did an install with these on a 76 I think (Great White?)

They are aluminum so they wont corrode like non SS sleeved OEMs could and they weigh much less so you gain an unsprung weight advantage. Im not sure if you gain any more hydraulic surface area with the pistons used but if so, you could gain a little more brake power.

Since Ill never throw that much $$ into the brakes, Ill probably stick to the OEM SS VBP O-ring set-up.

My .02

Brent...

427V8

:U

No advantage.
Well you car MAY be faster since your wallet will be lighter!

groovyjay

:iagree:

SmokedTires

They look :cool: . Not sure about the performance though.

gerry72

They do not work better than the factory calipers. They weigh less which, if you were into serious road race or slolom events, could help since they reduce unsprung weight which is quite substantial when you compare the factory iron to the Force 10 aluminum.

I have a set of Force 10s on another car. They are very cool through the TT-Ds but offer nothing toward shorter stopping distance.

If you have a big wad of money burning a hole in your pocket, go for it.

mpro71vette

Thanks guys, I think that pretty much answers my question. They seem to be no better than the regular calipers and perform the same (if not into serious racing). I don't have any money burning holes in my pocket and would prefer to put the money into something that would help a lot more! Thanks again, the CF is great! :cheers: :cheers:

427V8

My bigest complaint about the Force 10's is that they are a copy of the stock brakes in aluminum.

The stock brakes bend a lot under stress causing tapering of the pad, the aluminum ones would be even worse!

If you really do want lighter / better brakes other companies actually design their aluminum calipers:rolleyes: not to bend all over the place.

Paul in Warren

Guys - if you really want some SERIOUS bang for the buck in the braking department - toss one of our Level II or Level III systems in!

The $495 / $595 you spend (less CF member 10% discount) will be the best investment you have made to date - if you install the system and don't absolutely agree, we offer a true, no BS! satisfaction guaranteed - or your money back in full policy! :flag

427V8

OK I gotta ask, I can't hold back any longer...

Just how can a hydratech system improve my brakes?

I can lock them up now, Am I missing something?

Paul in Warren

Ready to take the Hydratech Challenge? If you try our systems and do not find improvement in your braking - we will not only refund your purchase costs in full - we'll ink you a $50 check to boot (!) for trying our systems!!!

How does that "grab ya" !? No BS!

Besides the extremely smooth, linear, and ultra potent braking action you will be greeted with, you will find a reduction in overall stopping distances! (here comes the debate! I can see it now... be prepared to acknowledge the fact that GM official testing also proves this matter out on its 2003 product lineup)

Also, you will have a much larger amount of space between the engine and the brake assist unit / master cylinder, allowing you to run any valve cover you wish on your big block, no more contortions needed to service the #7 spark plug, and a very trick looking unit to boot. :thumbs:


[Modified by Hydratech Braking, 3:23 AM 3/5/2003]

mpro71vette

I decided not to go with the Force 10 calipers, no advantages except weight, thats not enough in my book. But I will be going with the Hydratech, I should be ordering that in the next week, I heard a lot of good things about it! :D :cheers:

NHvette

Hey Mark -

With all the nice stuff you are buying for that car ....
Are you gonna need to rent my extra bedroom ? :jester :lol: :lolg:
Seriously, I was kinda psyched that I might get to drive your vette again,
with new engine, etc. Now, it's looking so good that I would be scared
to drive it.

OK - how about the short list ? What _aren't_ you replacing or upgrading ?

I'm gonna have an inferiority complex this summer, driving in my L48 primer hybrid.


HEY - just came across a good deal on a set of 4 calipers (NEW-SS sleeved)
with all pads and a quart of silicon fluid for $350. Rowley Corvette - North
Shore MA.
http://rowleycorvette.com/cgi-bin/we.../weekspec3.cgi


[Modified by NHvette, 3:16 PM 3/5/2003]

mpro71vette

Hey Dave, Yes I may need that extra bedroom :lol: This wasn't my intention but I can't stop! The paint is going to have to wait until next year, my wife said no way to that. Those brakes are a good price but I think I am going to go with the o-ring calipers. I have been working on it every weekend, I am finishing up the suspension (need to align the TA's), the engine and trans should be going in the next few weeks I hope. Whats your time frame on yours?

VegasJen

alright hydratech, sell me on the idea. i have no problems with the vacuum assist on my car. what i want is 1) reduced unspring weight 2) less weight overall 3) significantly decreased stopping distance.
how are you going to do that? 1) same calipers-no change in unsprung weight 2) cast iron hydraboost compared to stamped steel vacuum canister--hmm, no advantage there 3) once again, same calipers-- so no significant difference there.
:confused:
i'm not saying your not offering a good product (although i'm not impressed by the hydraboost system on my diesel truck) but i think it's geared more to the highway cruiser or the drag racer with a very radical cam. or am i wrong? :(

427V8

The only way a hydraboost system will decrease your stopping distance is if you are too week to press the brake hard enough to lock up the front tires.

If you CAN lock up the fronts the only way to reduce stopping distance is to get better tires.

If you can't lock up the fronts, get better pads, or do some squats :smash:

Paul in Warren

Hi guys - short of sending both of you units to evaluate, I'm going to do my absolute best here to explain how installation of the hydraulic brake assist system can help increase your overall braking power and reduce your stopping distances. :yesnod:

Speaking of sending you two assist units - any interests in actually giving it a shot? Seriously - you guys, and any other CF members potentially interested, could purchase systems, and try 'em out. If you really, truly want to send them back for any reason after giving them a thorough evaluation, we will most definitely honor our satisfaction guarantee + 50 bucks in your pocket for your efforts. The rules of the "Hydratech Challenge" are that you must send the system back to us within 120 days of initial purchase, the units must be in overall appropriate condition when returned (installation and use wear and tear are obviously ok), and you have to present clearly your reason for returning your product - ie. did not meet or exceed the claims of improved braking, improper systems operations, or something genuinely along those lines. All you really have to do is call us and say that "after trying your product, I truly wish to remove it from my vehicle, restore it back to its prior condition because I registered no genuine improvement" and you will have met the general criteria of the "Hydratech Challenge". We would then have you ship the complete system back to us (at your expense), then, upon inspection for realistic wear and tear + inspection for complete kit contents return, we will credit your chargecard back for the complete purchase price, including initial shipping, ink you a company check for $50 and send it along with a letter of sincere thanks for trying our systems ! :flag

Ok, now onto how in the world this thing can actually help me stop better: :confused:
First off, we unfortunately can offer you no reduction in weight, unsprung or overall - I wish we could! Then we would really have something to boast about in conjunction with improved stopping distances and overall braking performance.

Think about this - It has been stated that "if you can already lockup your front tires, the only way to reduce stopping distance is to get better tires". This statement is only partially true... However, consider this comparison: isn't that like stating that "if I can already smoke my tires upon acceleration, then how can more horsepower help me acheive a better ET / trap speed?" Of course everybody knows the answer to that one. For the most part, the same basic principals that apply on the accelerative plane also apply in the decelerative plane. If you had a gross excess of horsepower and torque, you would have to learn how to apply just the right amount of power to maintain maximum acceleration - the ragged edge of traction loss. The same applies to braking, exactly the concept behind ABS braking systems on newer vehicles. You most certainly would lose ET and "mile an hour" if you just "flat pedalled" a grossly overpowered vehicle - vs - you would most certainly lenghten your stopping distances if you were to just lock the tires and rely strictly on tire size / raw contact patch to pavement ratios to stop a vehicle. Also, it can be likened to "if I already have a good stereo system in my vehicle, how can a quality amplifier help?" All of that being said, envision the comparison clearly and reach the conclusion that what I state is potentially correct and applicable to the discussion.

Now, onto the "meat and potatoes" of how this system can actually make the car stop in a shorter distance, as by comparison to a properly fuctioning vacuum brake assist system. The actual incept of full caliper pressures can be initiated ever so slightly faster (faster assist system response time), modulation of braking system actions is vastly improved by the much more linear action of the hydraulic assist unit, and almost twice the overall raw power of a vac assist unit, all cumulatively and most definetely come into play by direct comparison. All of this clearly translates into a substantial "realworld and highly noticable" improvement in braking performance!

The benefits really begin to clearly manifest themselves in real world testing during higher speed testing maneuvers. Low speed braking maneuvers are somewhat harder to accurately and clearly document, however this is where the initial shock occurs for most customers. Typically, when a customer gets into their vehicle for the first time, they usually drive around slowly to get a feel for the new braking response. No joke here - we warn the customers as best as possible, nonetheless a minority of them do not seem to take the cautionary statement seriously and some have actually suffered minor injury from actually hitting their heads against the steering wheel! (ouch) They are then so stunned by the new found response that they just go around darned near flat spotting their tires in disbelief that their brakes have actually gained so much overall potency. After a few minutes of getting accustomed to the new found braking power, these people usually end up going out for the "classic bonzo test drive". They come back from these test drives very pumped up (some with tickets!) and when asked whether or not they like their brakes, they just usually sit their nodding their heads up and down, just about speechless ! No BS!

So, after all the talk and all the rhetoric, do we have any takers here? Anybody actually want to "step up to the plate" and take the "Hydratech Challenge"? If so, call us, ask for Paul - explain that you have seen this post and wish to take us up on our challenge!




[Modified by Hydratech Braking, 4:55 AM 3/6/2003]

74-Roadster

After reading Hydra-tech's rebuttal, I sent this link to SSBrakes to see if they will provide a justification of cost vs benefit. I'd really like to hear what they have to say.

VegasJen

paul, you come up with a system that uses aluminum calipers (a' la c-5) and make a package comparable to or better than SSBC and i would probably be a guinea pig. as it is, i'm either looking for a set of c-5 calipers or a set of wilwoods.
one other thing, i don't suppose this system works very well on a car with manual steering, huh? :lolg: