Calling all Brake Experts
02-25-2003, 08:39 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Calling all Brake Experts
G'Day Mates,
I have been reading these posts about the Hydroboost braking system ( Aaron76 and others) and a thought came to me. Let me say that I have no formal qualifications in automotive mechanics but have been working on cars, mainly Holdens, for almost forty years. The big question is, "Why do you need to fit a Hydroboost system?". The answer seems to be because of low engine vacuum, caused by a lumpy camshaft etc. Hey, no-one just fits a hot camshaft into an engine with no other modifications, do they? (Except ricers maybe?). No, you fit big valves, headers, manifold, higher compression etc.and end up with a very powerful engine.
If your engine vacuum is down, then rather than go to all the expense of fitting a non-standard and complicated Hydroboost system, why not fit an engine driven vacuum pump and plug it into the servo (power booster)? Would it work? According to an article in Hot Rod magazine (March 2003), a big block Chev engine built by Kevin Thompson of Hot Rod Solutions in Memphis has one fitted. The article says..." To help assure ring seal, Thompson adapted an Aerospace Components evacuation pump that generates 15 inches of vacuum at full throttle..." Would this be enough to operate the brakes?
Seems to me that if this worked, it would be a lot easier to leave the vcacuum servo on the car and "boost" it with an engine driven vacuum pump.
The added benefit would be increased ring seal and maybe even lower emissions if also connected to the crankcase. Would an A.I.R. pump work? Or would it have to be a dedicated vacuum pump?
If your car was not fitted with power steering, you would have to fit p.s. in order to fit a Hydroboost system, adding to the cost. Paul, I am not knocking your system, just looking for other answers to the same question.
These are questions to which I don't know the answers, but I'm sure that someone out there does know. Your thoughts, gentlemen?
Regards from Down Under :cheers:
aussiejohn
I have been reading these posts about the Hydroboost braking system ( Aaron76 and others) and a thought came to me. Let me say that I have no formal qualifications in automotive mechanics but have been working on cars, mainly Holdens, for almost forty years. The big question is, "Why do you need to fit a Hydroboost system?". The answer seems to be because of low engine vacuum, caused by a lumpy camshaft etc. Hey, no-one just fits a hot camshaft into an engine with no other modifications, do they? (Except ricers maybe?). No, you fit big valves, headers, manifold, higher compression etc.and end up with a very powerful engine.
If your engine vacuum is down, then rather than go to all the expense of fitting a non-standard and complicated Hydroboost system, why not fit an engine driven vacuum pump and plug it into the servo (power booster)? Would it work? According to an article in Hot Rod magazine (March 2003), a big block Chev engine built by Kevin Thompson of Hot Rod Solutions in Memphis has one fitted. The article says..." To help assure ring seal, Thompson adapted an Aerospace Components evacuation pump that generates 15 inches of vacuum at full throttle..." Would this be enough to operate the brakes?
Seems to me that if this worked, it would be a lot easier to leave the vcacuum servo on the car and "boost" it with an engine driven vacuum pump.
The added benefit would be increased ring seal and maybe even lower emissions if also connected to the crankcase. Would an A.I.R. pump work? Or would it have to be a dedicated vacuum pump?
If your car was not fitted with power steering, you would have to fit p.s. in order to fit a Hydroboost system, adding to the cost. Paul, I am not knocking your system, just looking for other answers to the same question.
These are questions to which I don't know the answers, but I'm sure that someone out there does know. Your thoughts, gentlemen?
Regards from Down Under :cheers:
aussiejohn
02-25-2003, 09:04 AM
#2
Safety Car
Re: Calling all Brake Experts (aussiejohn)
I'm not a brake expert by any means but I strongly believe you DO NOT need to fit Hydroboost for power brakes. Vacuum pumps are a viable alternative. However, the engine-driven pump might rob you of a coupla HP. Because of this, some people use electric pumps. I would think either the vacuum pump or the Hydroboost would work fine.
Brett :thumbs:
Brett :thumbs:
02-25-2003, 09:07 AM
#3
Race Director
Member Since: Nov 2000
Location: Waterloo ontario Canada
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Re: Calling all Brake Experts (aussiejohn)
My car came with power steering but not power brakes. My son gave me the idea about the power of hydraboost because he had one on his one ton dually pick up truck. I also have a big block with roller rockers arms, a stud girdle and tall valve covers. No way to have a vacuum power system, the tall valve covers and easy access to the plugs.
My first system was from the wreckers and cost me $20.oo for a good unit complete with master cylinder. Other then modifying the brake pedal rod which just involves cutting to length and running a die over it it was a bolt in deal. All the holes are already in the firewall. I turned the mounting plate around 180 degress for better looks and to move the brass canister away from the engine side.
Hooking up 3 lines is not big a deal and a local hose supplier made me nice stainless ones for about $100.
So I had about $120 CDN in my first system and found it was extremely strong and not not complicated to hook up.
A few years later I decided to try a even strong unit so I bought a 94 one ton unit complete for $50 CDN. It bolted right in place of the smaller unit.
Really didn't notice any difference since I had stronger brakes then anything else I ever drove and that included my wife's new SSEI Supercharge bonneville which was to be very strong.
So to me installing a hydraboost is really not difficult for anyone, my master cylinder lines didn't need to be lengthened, it was very cheap $120 CDN maximum, I already had the power steering pump.
If you buy an engine vacuum pump it has got to cost alot more then this plus mounting it to the engine with the extra belt and pulley has got to be more of a problem then a bolt in hydraboost and most of us want power steering anyway.
I have been pushing the hydraboost system for years and anyone that I know who made the switch has been happy.
This would be a good time for anyone who made the switch and is not happy to express their dislikes.
My first system was from the wreckers and cost me $20.oo for a good unit complete with master cylinder. Other then modifying the brake pedal rod which just involves cutting to length and running a die over it it was a bolt in deal. All the holes are already in the firewall. I turned the mounting plate around 180 degress for better looks and to move the brass canister away from the engine side.
Hooking up 3 lines is not big a deal and a local hose supplier made me nice stainless ones for about $100.
So I had about $120 CDN in my first system and found it was extremely strong and not not complicated to hook up.
A few years later I decided to try a even strong unit so I bought a 94 one ton unit complete for $50 CDN. It bolted right in place of the smaller unit.
Really didn't notice any difference since I had stronger brakes then anything else I ever drove and that included my wife's new SSEI Supercharge bonneville which was to be very strong.
So to me installing a hydraboost is really not difficult for anyone, my master cylinder lines didn't need to be lengthened, it was very cheap $120 CDN maximum, I already had the power steering pump.
If you buy an engine vacuum pump it has got to cost alot more then this plus mounting it to the engine with the extra belt and pulley has got to be more of a problem then a bolt in hydraboost and most of us want power steering anyway.
I have been pushing the hydraboost system for years and anyone that I know who made the switch has been happy.
This would be a good time for anyone who made the switch and is not happy to express their dislikes.