Paul L

You people know a little bit about everything so here goes. I have a cell phone (Nokia 6185i) that I purchased fom Bell. I use it rarely, certainly not enough to justify the monthly charges. It was a Corvette thing in case of getting stranded during the summer driving season because of a breakdown. I looked at other options including a pay-as-you-go from AT & T. That looked reasonable so I decided to cancel with Bell. Well, as usual you cannot do that on the web site ;) (love that lack of cancellation option) so I telephoned. And actually reached a person :) . Now we're cooking! So please cancel my account; I do not need the bells and whistles. He offered me an emergency account of 30 minutes for $12.95/month. That sounds fine, do it. Minutes go by...can't do that because I signed up for a 24-month plan. I have to cancel and start again!! :rant: . OK get me out of Bell service. That will cost $99.00. OK do it. Done as of March 3, no charge for February.

Signed up with AT & T three nights ago. Pay as you go for 120 minutes. Received a confirmation e-mail within 36 hours and the activation card today by UPS. Cell phone does not work?? Phoned AT & T, the activation is good. Phoned Bell. Account is cancelled. Fine, just what I wanted. So why does my new number not work? "Well Sir, you purchased a Bell Nokia telephone and it does not work with other companies." So I have a brand new Nokia cell phone, used four or five times, that is junk :rant: .

This is madness. Can these things be re-programmed? AT & T says it is activated. But every time I try to make a call it goes to the Bell accounts centre.......


[Modified by paul79, 8:19 PM 2/5/2003]

Robert N

Oops - finished reading :banghead:

Been in the business too long now. The 6185 is a CDMA handset and the AT&T network is TDMA based. It would be like trying to receive AM radio on an FM receiver.

In Tucson we have 3 different technologies (GSM, TDMA, CDMA) operating on to different bandwidths (1900 mHz and 800mHz - could also be a problem for you). 8 different services offer this configurations with AT&T playing with 2 different systems of their own.

Additionally, even when 2 companies operate identical networks and COULD use each others phones, they lock the handsets to prevent this.

The carriers buy the equipment from the manufacturer and sell them to the dealers and public at a reduced cost. To avoid taking a loss on the equipment by having a dealer sell these phones to just anyone to activate, they lock the handsets making it impossible.

You will always get Bell since the phone is locked to their network.


[Modified by Robert N, 6:22 PM 2/5/2003]

Paul L

Robert,
I don't understand the technology but AT&T did ask for the ESN number on the back of the 'phone and gave it an OK. I had to presume they knew what they were doing.

Robert N

AT&T's network should have 'flagged' the phone as invalid. The Electronic Serial Number (ESN) is coded with information that Identifies the phone in much the same way the VIN on a car reveals engine type, body style.

Sloppy work on their part. Also, the model number is a giveaway to any in the business. Nokia produced a number of 6100 series phones. The 6185 is a CDMA designation. The phone would need to be a 6160 (identical in look) for it to work.

CDMA - Code Division Multiple Access - info sent via coding
TDMA - Time Division Mutltiple Access - info sent via time packets
GSM - Global System for Mobile Communications - Stream of info

They are 3 different ways of digitally processing a call. The bit at the end is real basic.

None of that needs to matter to you, short of the fact that you need some basis to know why phones are not cross serive compatible.

AT&T dropped the ball.

Paul L

OK, unless I go back to Bell the Nokia is junk. Expensive experiment :( .

Crash Dummy

Bad assumption Paul.... "that they knew what they were doing".... that is. When I find some group in the phone/wireless/cellular group who can responsibly handle an account I will let you know.

Paul L

If I understand correctly that may be a long time from now. I can tell you that it started out as what seemed like a simple task: cancel my account. I have a brand new 'phone, never used, get a new number with a new supplier. And away we go. Wrong :rant: . I now have no connect, paid for a new connect that is useless, and my 'phone is supplier-specific and junk. If I go back to them, after paying $99.00 for disconnect, I will have to pay a re-connect charge........I am tired. I am not prone to jargon, but I feeled grabbed by the b...s tonight. And that hurts. And high-tech telecommunications margins are down! I wonder why. See everyone tomorrow. I am spitting angry.

Crash Dummy

Paul,

With this 28 year old Vette I want one of those wireless contraptions with me just in case I need it, so I will have one no matter what. In fact, when my 2 year contract with Verizon goes out next month I will be dumping my land line and going pure wireless. You are not the only one to deal with idiots in the communications industry... trust me! Four of us signed up for 2 year corporate accounts(2 years ago) with Verizon and all of us have been overbilled so many times it is sickening. And then you get on the stupid thing to complain and they can't even find that discount.... over & over & over again. And don't think you are the only one who can't activate an account. I bought the handset while activating the service and went back to my office to dial the # to make sure it worked. Nope! Luckily those sales people were still there, so I went back to get it fixed. Go figure it that when they called in to find out what was wrong the account could not even be found and I spent another 45 minutes waiting for these *idiots* to find an account created only hours ago. Don't even get me started what it is like to call with problems and expect some intelligent answers. What really irritated me once was that while on hold(on that wireless device) one time I got disconnected twice and to start all over listening to that automated crap... punching 1... punching 1 again... more instructions intended to confuse you... and then you are on hold again. I personally think they do it on purpose so that you will just accept the overbills and never call again.

Nothing against Verizon to let you know.... SBC is full of idiots too.

mg62

Paul, take a deep breath. You may be able to salvage the situation; maybe not to your complete satisfaction, but you may not be as bad off as you think.

First, AT&T misinformed you about whether your phone was compatible with their network. It is generally well known in the cell phone world that these phones only work with the network supplier you got it from. The average consumer may not be aware of this (though many are), but AT&T certainly should have been, and they should refund you every penny you paid to connect with them and cancel any long-term commitment you may have made to them.

Second, if you explain what happened, Bell may be willing to refund you their disconnect charge if you go back to the plan you had previously committed to (without charging a reconnect fee). This would put you back to square one with a plan you're not entirely happy with, but at least you wouldn't be out of pocket the various fees you've incurred in this unfortunate experiment.

Alternatively, you will be able to use your phone in a Bell pay-as-you-go type plan, probably only after you pay the $99 to get out of your existing contractual commitment. (In fairness to Bell, they're entitled to be compensated for your cancellation of your existing commitment, since the price you paid for the phone and your line charges from the beginning of the contract were based on you fulfilling the entire term, as you had agreed to do.)

In my dealings with cell phone providers, I've found that they're sensitive to the suggestion that either they cut you some slack or you'll go to the other main provider and never use one of their cells again. Market share is very important to Canadian cell providers, and you can sometimes get a better result by going one step up the chain from the person you talk to at the customer service line to his/her supervisor.

Dunno if that'll be helpful, but it's my 2 cents. Hope it works out.

Robert N

As an owner of a company that sells wireless phones and service and the fact that in a city of close to 800,000 people I am so well respected for what I do by competitors that they send me business and call me when they do not know the answer, I will take offense to this.

Repeat and referral business have kept me highly profitable. Again, much of that business is directly from competitors.

Last year was my most profitable, hitting record sales even as the economy died. I paid out bonuses, gave my employees raises, and donated quite a bit to charity.

There are bad apples in all business and I don't doubt your experiences. The wireless phone industry is highly competitive and requires quite a bit of detial and knowledge to understand and sell properly.

zwede

I don't know about Bell, but with T-mobil (ex voicestream) you just have to send an email with the IMEI # of the phone and they will unlock it so it can be used with other providers. It's done over the air so you don't even have to turn the phone in.

I highly recommend a pre-paid plan for anyone who doesn't use the phone constantly. Of course I'm a bit biased as I work in designing the most used pre-paid system... :)

Robert N

True with the IMEI on a GSM phone. The CDMA handsets have the code programmed into the handsets. They can be unlocked, but cannot be converted to a different technology.

By the way, I agree on teh pre-paid use. I also recommend it highly for those on short trips or as a back up.

Which system do you work on?

groovyjay

I have owned about 20 Nokia cell phones and I would not even think of anything else. Very reliable products IMO. I was surpriced to read that your Nokia won't work with other network provider. Do you guys have sim cards in your phones? I use 3 different company's sim cards (even 2 different countries!) in my cell phones, and they work for me. I don't know how your system differs from the European market. Remember, if something is programmed, it can be re-progammed too. :yesnod:
How much are the minute rates over there?
:cheers:

Robert N

groovyjay,

When it comes to wireless, Europe is light years ahead. Europe operates almost entirely on a GSM (SIM) based system. Since the actual cost of the phone in Europe is passed to the consumer, serivce providers are not losing money on equipment and the phones are therefore free to use on various systems.

That is also due to the fact that traveling between countries in Europe is easier than state to state travel in the US. Since there are different providers in each country, there needs to be some cooperation. A universal system helps. No such thing on this side of the Pond. Wireless is not a Utility and each company is out to better the other. That creates proprietary issues.

Minute rates vary drastically from state to state and carrier to carrier. We offer a $99.99 plan for 5000 minutes (SIM based), free roaming throughout covered areas in the US, free domestic long distance, and as little as $0.99 per minute for roaming through most of Europe to $4.99 per minute for Russia (all with one phone and SIM).

Nokia is an awesome product, but there are a few bad apples. We get some of the inside info as a repair center for Nokia. Motorola has some ggod phones in their lineup, but Nokia still reigns in IMO as well.

NHvette

I'd rather walk to a pay phone than own a cell phone.
I got one years back - the original Motorola 'flip-phone'.

Way cool when I was single - but a PITA now - and just another thing to
leave on the roof of the car as I drive off. :rolleyes: No thanks.
:seeya

Paul L

I contacted Bell this afternoon after hearing from members here and Robert N. by e-mail. So here is the conclusion. It appears that Bell has "unadvertised" plans. I found one for about $15.00US per month that gives me 100 minutes. No e-mail and the other bells-and-whistles; just straight 'phone time. Exactly what I need. The $99.00 cancellation charge has been waived and I will have service renewed in about one hour. There is no reconnect charge. But you really have to dig to get this info.....

So I am out $25.00 for the AT&T pre-paid card that I cannot use. I will just let that expire.

Forum members have come through again! Thanks.

zwede

Ericsson PPS, a GSM pre-paid system.