LiveandLetDrive

I'm just getting started into my second semester at Kansas State, majoring in Physics, but I'm starting to have doubts. I joined a research group in the first semester and it's given me a good look at what I'd be doing 10 years from now, unfortunately I'm not all that inspired. To sum up my complaints, math is a tool for me, but I don't think I want it to be my life's work!

Anyways, on to the part that's halfway relevant to this forum! Thinking about what I'd rather be doing, the choice was pretty obvious, there's nothing I love more than working on my car! If you could see my dorm room here, you'd know classic cars in general, and Corvettes specifically occupy my every waking thought. I got a rather late start into auto work, about 3 years ago my dad got his '64 Nova, and now I've got my own projecct, but I'm a pretty quick learner and I think I have a nack (spelling?) for working with my hands. I do plan to build a Factory Five Cobra as my next car, so I'm not afraid of major construction endeavors. If I had a garage and something else to drive, I'm pretty sure my '77s body would be off by now!

My question for you, where do I start? Where do I learn more? I'm sure there must be hundreds of directions to go in the auto industry, although restoration and custom-building cars is my main interest. For those of you already in this line of work, just tell me about what you do and how you got there, pros/cons etc. I do plan to finish this semester at the least, maybe this summer I could take some courses somewhere? I have no welding/fabrication/welding experience but I'm interested to learn. Is this a line of work where apprenticeship is common? I want to know it all!

Thanks alot,
Chris

Feel free to email: RUXPer1enced@hotmail.com

73 LS-4

Hi Chris,

Unfortunately the restoration and customizing size of this industry is very very small and therefore hard to ge into off the bat. I'd like to get into that side of it myself someday when the right opportunity presents itself, i do a little of it now (working on a 70 corvette and 66 mustang at work as long term projects) but it's not my normal work. Basically what i do is troubleshoot electrical problems and driveability problems (missfires, hesitations, check engine lights, stalls, etc. and so on), so I stay on the technical side of things, I don't normally do the heavy grunt work, since I'm needed for these other areas. In fact at a previous job I hardly ever fixed anything myself just told them what was wrong with it and what parts needed to be changed and went on to the next problem while somone else did the R&R. If you do want to get into wrenching this is the only way to go, the gap between the guys who do my kind of work and the guys who are parts changers gets bigger every day as cars get more and more complex (often needlessly). Plus the fact if you can do this kind of work there's tons of shops looking for you that will pay well depending on your experience and training. I had 3 job offers on the table the first week I started looking for a job after my old company, lets say "went under", so I don't worry much about finding a job if I lose my current one for some reason. As far as my education background, I went to SIUC (southern Illinois university of carbondale) and got my Bachelors degree in automotive technology there, great program and had a blast down there. Most of the graduates seem to go up to detroit having desk jobs answereing phones starting out, not exactly what i wanted to do so I stuck around local, did the service writer bit for a while (3years), got really sick of the public that doesn't have a clue of how hard modern cars are to work with now, so when I got the opportunity I went back to wrenching and let somebody else deal with the public "circus". Would I do this again if given the choice, probably not, there's no prestiege(sp?) in this job whatsoever, the public still thinks of most of us as simple laborers, not the highly trained technicians that many of us are today. I would have went into aviation been a pilot like my dad if I had to do it over again, and played with cars as a hobby rather then work and hobby. I can see in the future where respect will come to this job when nobody will be able to work on the new stuff except people with a lot of training and education.

:cheers:
Pat Kunz

PatsLs1vette

I agree with 73ls4,try and learn all you can about the newer technology in these new cars.We have 4 guys in our shop including me,i work for a municipality repairing police cars ,fire engines ,school buses and anything else that comes in,out of the 4 guys we have im the only one that can fix the newer cars,one guys been a mechanic for 50 years the other a ford trained mechanic for 15 years and another guy that does body stuff.But they never kept up with the newer technology,so when something comes in with a check engine light ,there clueless,so i get taken off my job and have to fix theres too.I guess what im saying is go to school and study the newer computer cars.I didnt go to school for cars i taught myself and help from my dad when i was younger but now i help him out on his stuff.Boy the tides have turned.But it is nice to pop out the scanner and start troubleshooting a problem and then when your done youve figured it out,its self satisfaction for me. :cheers:

no_radio

This is a pretty interesting thread to me...
I wish I had come to that realization when I was your age. Not that I am particularly old (31), but it seems to get exponentially harder to make a career change as you get older.
I am a mechanical engineer, BSME '95 University of Texas at Austin. For several reasons I have wound up working as a Project Engineer for a major oil company here in Houston. One was convenience...I had a co-op in college with an oilfield consulting company so I had contacts in the industry when I graduated, and a job waiting for me. Only a year or so prior to my graduation I had sworn I wouldn't work in this industry or live in Houston.
This brings me to another reason I am here...I didn't know how to get a job doing something I loved, working around cars. In hindsight, I should have asked the automotive engineering professors what to do, who to talk to. I should have joined and been active in the SAE club on campus (Society of Automotive Engineers). I was too busy working to pay for school, but I have cost myself much more in the long run.
So now I am contemplating a change myself. I am considering a drop in pay and having to relocate to pursue what makes me happy.
My advice to you...
find a professor or professors who specialize in autmotive technology, whether combustion engines or vehicle dynamics or whatever. Hopefully there will be at least one at your school. Talk to him, pick his brain, try to get ideas of how to break in to the various aspects of the automobile industry, whether restoration or design/R&D. Join the SAE club at your school. At UT they had projects from cart racers to full-on restoration/hot rods. Take classes and try to get a degree with some relevance to cars. I suggest Mechanical Engineering. You learn materials, welding, fasteners, springs, and more.
Bottom line...follow your heart. It will be much easier for you to do what you want now than 5 or 8 or 10 years from now. Don't blow it. Don't settle. Find what you want to do and do it. If it takes some time don't get comfortable with whatever you do in the meantime. Making enough to make the car payment, have a place to live, and food to eat can kill ambition. Keep working toward your goal.
Way too much ranting for now, I suppose. Email me if you have questions, comments, etc.
jeffsclassics@yahoo.com
and good luck!
Jeff

goofygrin

:iagree:

with what was said right above.

I have a CS degree (I'm 25). I really like to work with my hands (building furniture, working on cars, etc.) but I am "stuck" with my day job because... well it pays the bills :) (well too!).

but when (if) I retire, I hope to be that old guy who always is making noise in his garage... who one day opens the doors and you see this awesome clunker :)

I would check out the engineering areas there at KSU and see what they have for you.

vettery

Quote:"Bottom line...follow your heart. It will be much easier for you to do what you want now than 5 or 8 or 10 years from now. Don't blow it. Don't settle. Find what you want to do and do it. If it takes some time don't get comfortable with whatever you do in the meantime. Making enough to make the car payment, have a place to live, and food to eat can kill ambition. Keep working toward your goal."

:iagree:
:banghead:

rollavette71

:iagree: ... with no_radio. I'm a professor of Aerospace Engineering, and I advise our FSAE car team. Each May we race in Detroit with over 100 other universities. It's a blast! Each car is designed and built from the ground up by students (not faculty or staff). This is a great way to get into the auto industry. Auto manufacturers snap our students up, since they graduate with hands-on experience. Check to see if your university has an FSAE team, and if so, join it and be ACTIVE in it!

Good luck,

Hank
:cheers:

mrvette

Contrary to all the above posts, stick with physics and get an academic hob...keep cars as a hobby...you will thank your lucky stars when age 40+ and you see all the mechanics outta the field with bad backs, and other ailments....while you fly a desk.....

It's something I should have done way back when....got lost in the educational/governmnetal institutions....someplace you get paid well enough, where the cost of living is NOT crazy....

working on cars for a living is just a burn out career, like fixing TV's was for me...only cars are physically harder....and with cars you have to learn everybody's silly approach to a problem...learn all the construction nitemares...and after 15++ years of keeping up with the junk, and seeing it only get more fast paced....you will get tired of it....WHY??? you are too smart for the field....you successful enough studying physics....DO IT!!!

cars are NICE hobbies....and Yeh, for a number of decades now, I"v been into cars...all sorts of cars....houses too....you name it...but at age 58 I have damn pittiful little to show/look forward to for a lifetime of work....WHY??? working for private enterprise all my life.....allways more and more for less and less....

GENE :rant:

MN-Brent

If you really must, get into the engineering side of the business. I don't know what the employment security is in this industry as I have never really heard good or bad. I am sure it is like many other careers though with ups and downs, depending on the economy.

My younger brother (I'm 34, he's 21) is looking to drop out of a CPU science degree program to go to Wyotech or UTI type of place. I think that is a mistake and hopefully he'll reconsider.

Im an Application Engineer in the power electronics industry, basically a project manager "flying a desk" as a previous post said. I have been on both sides of the fence as a hands on Navy electronics tech when I was younger. I like being hands on, and satisfy this now with my car hobby. With this I dont kill myself at work breaking my knuckles or my back. youll appreciate this as time goes on , just as the others have said.

Best of Luck with your descisions

Brent.....

no_radio

I didn't mean to imply that he take a job as a mechanic...what I intended was that he get into the engineering side of things, where he can have a desk job doing something he enjoys. My ideal job would be more hands-on than a typical job, but not a mechanic either. Setting up and evaluating R&D and endurance testing would be good, something like that.

BUT, if you really want to turn wrenches you should do it! These days with computer diagnosis if you become one of the troubleshooters you really don't wind up turning too many wrenches, and the pay is better as well.

Jeff

bb69

RUXperienced,
You need to give us some more information about what you're looking for. For instance, if you want to work on cars, fixing them, look into a technical school like UTI. If you are interested in working on cars, designing them, get a mechanical or electrical engineering degree. The same can be said for getting into motorsports.

That being said, you need to realize that there are thousands of guys just like you getting ME and EE degrees, and you need to make yourseld stand-out from the bunch. Joining the FSAE team is a great way to do this if you want to design cars. Your hands-on experience is also a plus. However, you need to look into co-opping for several summers, or getting an iternship. The Fords, GM's, and Chrysler's of the world are always looking for engineering students with prior work experience.

I have been working in the auto industry since 1994, as a co-op and full time engineer. I can tell you from this experience that designing cars, engines, suspensions, etc is much more exciting than fixing cars. (Please keep in mind that this is my opinion.) Some of the projects I have worked on, including the ability to shut off cylinders, is on the cutting edge of technology. The ability to see new vehicles years before introduction is great. The list benefits goes on. As far as job security, you have to set yourself apart, just as in any business. I have switched jobs several times, and the hard part wasn't finding the right job, it was sifting through the messages from headhunters.

There are downfalls, as with anything else. For one, the industry is in the Detroit area. It's 9 degrees right now. The industry can be extremely competitive, and the drive to cut costs means you will often have more work than you would want.

To sum it up, get the degree. Just because you have the degree, doesn't mean that you have to get a job that requires it. But, you will always have it to fall on. Remember, you're one of thousands that has a dream of being around cars, you need to make yourself stand-out.

Good luck.

LiveandLetDrive

Alright, I made an interesting thread! Well I think the voice of reason is winning this one, the Mechanical Engineering path is an option I'm definitely going to think about, which I would use to get into the design (or R&D) aspect of things. It's only my first year so I'm not that far behind if I do decide to switch. Turning wrenches is something I have no problem with, and frankly alot of respect for, but I think I need to find what works for me intellectually and be a "wrench turner" when I can within that field.

To elaborate on my feelings on physics, it's a subject that I do really like, I've read alot of Hawking and Feynman and all the rest. I'm just worried that the career itself is going to be nothing but crunching numbers and staring at equations, which kindof looses the fun side of it. I think my strategy for now will be to explore the options I have in the physics field, and in the ME field, and see what I may be interested in. College is turning out to be more of a time of change than I expected!

Thanks for all your responses, no reason to stop if you still have something to say!
Chris

foundvettelifeisgood

Get your degree in Mechanical Engineering and then do whatever the hell you want. Sounds strange, but it works that way more often than not.

:cheers:

Paul L

Gene,
I have thought about this thread for a day now before posting. We do need automobile technicians very much. But based on my experience in my semi-retirement years I would not advise a young person to go into that for a living.

I had a desk-jockey government career for some time. And now benefit from early retirement with a modest but for-life pension. I took on a McJob at a GM dealership as a Lube Supervisor to supplement that income. Just a few observations as to the life of a GM Tech/Mechanic:
-no work, no pay
-paid by job
-supply own tools; in the 000s of dollars
-apprentice time to licence is equivalent to a B.Eng degree
-basic sick leave
-minimum vacation time
-minimum employee paid health and dental
-environmentally iffy workplace environment: constant contact with chemicals
-constant contact with exhaust fumes
-very physical work; most techs do not last beyond 50 (in fact we have none)
-pension? Do it yourself. Minimal help from employer.
-warranty work is a money loser
-code reading is a constant occupation and not highly skilled in my view
-real mechanical work such as engine or transmission re-building is discouraged as not being cost-effective
-and the the skills to do the latter are not there.
-I see not incentive to go beyond the lucrative brake job work

I may be jaded by the largesse of my former employer but I do not find this a place that I would wish to work in starting a career. In fact, I would not recommend it. Just as an example, I asked a young tech if he would do my intake manifold install in April. I pay shop time at the Mitchell rate. He refused as he has never worked on a V8 before and would lose time and money trying to figure out the job. I will do it myself...and do it right.