454-73

I am currently an owner of a 1973-454; unfortunately the block is a 1970-454. I just bought a 1973-454 short block that is a perfect casting nad date match. What is the best way of machining off the current serial number pad and where do I buy the tools to re-stamp the engine pad. If any one knows of a machine shop that will do this in the Toronto area that would be helpful.

sb69coupe

Hi George :seeya I know that the numbers are usually removed when the block gets decked during a rebuild. I suppose you could use a die grinder or belt sander to remove the current numbers. You'll destroy the factory "broach" marks that judges look for to gauge originality and appearance of the stamp pad either way.

Look in Hemmings under the "Services" ads to find folks who rent the gangs and dies for restamping. There are many subtleties that good NCRS judges look for in stamp pad appearance, so just grinding off the old numbers and whacking the new ones there will probably not pass muster in judging. What do you hope to achieve by this exercise? Maximum judging points or something else?

Shannon

Rolling Thunder

Sorry, but I wouldn't do it. :nono:

Welcome to the forum. :seeya
Dave

JB

:yesnod: The song remains the same, don't it?

JB

PROSOUTH

It is a Felony to Change or Alter Serial Numbers. PERIOD>>>Contact your State Police and ask for their Auto Theft Division. They will be more than happy to educate you on this practice.

This is 50 state Wide.

There is also belief that the serial plate can be changed on a body even if it is removed and replaced on the same body, once removed it will have to be reapplied by the State, or it's a Felony. I don't care if E-bay does sell the rivets.

The restoration stickers for the drivers door with the blank pad that allows your serial to be typed in and applied, again a Felony.

The other thing I keep hearing is that the Frame can be changed and retain the same title and serial number, again wrong. The body does have a display serial tag, but the frame number is the Primary vehicle ID Number.also it will have a Salvage Title when you do remove or exchange either the frame or body.

I'm not tryng to be harsh, but it's the law. Chances are it would never be caught. However, if your ex-best friend calls and reports it to the State they will have to come and check your car. It's not worth the hassle or the penalty for the percieved gain. You would lose your engine and possibly your car. It may even make it possible for you to meet new friends. :lol:

Personally I could care less if you did change them, and I realize that you are, I'm sure, an upstanding citizen. But the laws are made to pertain to everyone and be applied equally. I would hate to see anyone here among us get into trouble because of an issue such as this. I doubt that you would do any hard time with an expensive lawyer to recomend probation, but it's not worth it!

I would think twice before doing it. JIM :seeya

Mike Ward

Contrary to popular belief, Canada is not part of the Excited States and is not subject to either your state or federal laws- irrespective of whether these laws are right, wrong, or indifferent :reddevil

Having said that, restamping a block with altered information is a practice that is hard to justify; why would you do it, and who would you want to fool by doing it? Yourself? why bother. Someone else? :nono: There's enough fake cars out there already, let's not add another one. Please don't think you'll fool an NCRS type judge, very few pro's can get away with it, most restamps are easy to detect.

PROSOUTH

Contrary to popular belief, Canada is not part of the Excited States and is not subject to either your state or federal laws- irrespective of whether these laws are right, wrong, or indifferent

Pardon my missing that you Canadians are exempt from our laws, but I wish you would contact your authorities and get back with me on just how much of the information I supplied here you are exempt to? JIM :yesnod:

PRNDL

Sorry, folks,but... :bs
George, you aren't serious are you? Why on earth would you want to stamp numbers on your new engine? Even tho you have phrased you question in a very reasonalbe tone, I believe the sole purpose of your post is to push a few hot buttons, ie the "restamp the block" hotbutton :eek: and start a very lively conversation. That is by definition a Troll, which of course you have a long history of... Sorry, I just can't believe that you seriously want to buy a new engine and create a matching numbers engine... and if you do, you are nuttier than I thought!! :lol: MJ

rainman69

He asked the same question when he was registered before being asked to leave: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=292731

Smokehouse69

Mark,
Maybe this is a different George with a 73, 454 from Ontario :rolleyes:

hudman

So, is this how this game is played?

I can **** everybody off by being a total jerk, get banned, and then come back as Namduh.

If this is the same dude, why do the moderators even waste their time banning someone?

Crash Dummy

Where are you coming up with this one? Salvage titles are only existence when insurance companies are involved. I encourage everyone to do whatever is necessary to restore their vettes and not be undermined by such garbage that you need to apply for a salvage title. The grand state of Texas not only did not have problems with my coupe to vert conversion that was brought in out of Canada, but it rests on a new frame(of which they know about) and still flies the original coupe serial #'s.

Pure bah-humbug....

paintdaddy

:iagree:salvage titles are for cars that have been labeled SALVAGE by a insurance company.How can restamping nos. be illegal if there are companies that sell blocks restamped to your vin,the main one being in Arizona.The last time I checked it was in the US.Some one has fed you guys a line of :bs and you bought it.

PROSOUTH

It is a Felony to Change or Alter Serial Numbers. PERIOD>>>Contact your State Police and ask for their Auto Theft Division. They will be more than happy to educate you on this practice.
This is 50 state Wide.

I'm just telling you the law PaintDaddy, I could care less if you stamp your block. See the statement above, call yor state agency and see what they say.

Yes insurance co.s do stamp titles as salvage but. Let me do clarify that point. If you change the frame on your car or remove the body serial tag . You are to notify the State by law. They are to inspect the vehicle and then they will apply a state issued plate or tag same as they do for salvage. If you will look the plate the State puts on a car either says Reconstructed or State Issued

You must notify the state and show proof of ownership of the replaced parts on a salvage title, have it inspected and a plate will be attached. The reason the Insurance Co. stamps the title is because it means in their opinion it will take major replacement of parts to rebuild and it will require inspection. This also protects the insurance co. so when other cars are stolen to fix the salvage car it makes it possible to possiblly catch a car thief.

I don'y make the laws, lots of them I don't even understand. But the laws made to cover Auto Theft and Deception are made to protect you, not hurt you. If you can't understand that there is no need in my trying to explaiin it to you. Why do you think numbers are on that block to begin with? For Identification. What good are they if who ever the heck wants to change them can?

As for companies selling restamped blocks, That doesn't make it legal.

Just call you local agency and ask if you can change or alter the numbers on your car or motor without their permission. Let me know what they say.

Oh yes, I mean in the U.S. I haven't checked Canada or had response from Mr. Ward yet.

I don't understand why you guys want to call :bs to someone who only tells you something to supply you with information that might save you from grief.

I have been flamed twice in this post for merely statiing facts that some of you just didn't want to hear. I stated I could care less, go ahead and stamp that motor and then call and tell your State Auto Theft Division to come and do something about it! Hey while you are at it go ahead and change the frame to, ain't none of their business is it? Jim:nonod:

454-73

Thanks for your feedback I thought this was quite common re-stamping major items such as blocks as long as the correct casting dates match and they are installed on an original or factory correct model. My vette came from the factory as a BB or Z. Remember I am not trying to pass off a SM for a BB. The engine in question did come from a 73 BB. The reason I asked this question is that there was a great article in one of the Pontiac Mags were a restorer claimed that this is very common and a legal way of restoring cars to their original state. He also said that it would be silly to throw away a complete car just because one component is not original to that car. His also added that if you were to replace a small section of a rusted-out frame does that render the car worthless. Once again I thought this was quite common when restoring cars back to factory correct originality. I will talk to a few restores in the area and see the feedback I get.

Paul Borowski

Prosouth, not flaming you as I don't practice that, but you bring up a lot of points most of us probably never ever realized. If all you say is true, there are many, many cars runnin' around illegally, and this would'nt be just Corvettes either-I wonder how many DZ 302 '69 Z28s, '70 LS-6 Chevelles, '65-'69 396/375 Chevelles are driving around with new frames or restamped blocks??? :skep:

Tom73

Or with "CE" blocks???

One thing that makes this :bs is that if you are restamping the block, then the block already did not match the VIN. You are just putting it back to match the VIN, putting it back correct from its former incorrect state. By the theory stated above, then you would have to notify the state anytime you changed an engine.

tom...


[Modified by Tom73, 9:10 AM 1/9/2003]

PROSOUTH

One thing that makes this is that if you are restamping the block, then the block already did not match the VIN. You are just putting it back to match the VIN, putting it back correct from its former incorrect state. By the theory stated above, then you would have to notify the state anytime you changed an engine.



I didn't state that you couldn't change the engine. I said you couoldn't alter the ID Number. An engine has an ID number and is not held to the same criteria as the frame and body. The transmission also has a number. It to falls under this catagory. You may interchange the engine, and transmission as long as you donot alter the numbers. The frame and body numbers are also not to be altered,removed or replaced and are required by law to be recorded and inspected when changing these major components.

This is begining to become silly, look you do as you please, but if it comes back and bites you don't say you didn't know.

Lets say that you have a 2000 Z/28 that the engine or transmission is bad, you go steal one and put on your engine number and trans ID. IS THAT LEGAL ? NO! Neither is the other just because you want don't want it to be so. There is a reason for Vehicle ID Numbers and a reason for them not to be altered.

If you can consult with the State and have a supervised restamp fine, I just wouldn'y do it without there consent.

I posted a story here last year about a guy that replaced his windshield post and removed his VIN tag on a 71 Vert, I felt sorry for this guy, he tried to do the right thing and called the state to replace his VIN tag for him. They did, the agent that came confiscated his original plate and replaced it with a re-issued State of Tennessee ID Plate. That's how serious these people are.

If it was legal to alter engine numbers then why are they put on the engine to begin with? IT DAMN SURE AIN'T FOR THE NCRS................... :bs

a454corvette

What's the big deal with the original VIN stamp anyway? Once the engine is disassembled it isn't "original" anymore anyway. ESPECIALLY true if it's been decked. Love how all these "original" cars are advertised, new paint, new interior, new suspension, etc, etc. Hardly original, is it? Seems to me the problem is , and propogated by, people that "want" to believe a 30 year old car has never been touched, regardless of how much evidence (and common sense) indicates otherwise. After all, NO ONE ever raced or abused any of those big-block C2's, right? They're all mint condition , pampered cars, stored and not used for 40 years :skep:

For reference, the state of Oklahoma has nary a clue about VIN plate procedures in the course of collision repair. You cannot get a straight answer from any state agency. The OHP used to do inspections on rebuilts, but not anymore. It is left to the tag agent, since they're experts on automobiles. Yeah, riiggghhhttt. :rolleyes:


[Modified by a454corvette, 11:16 AM 1/9/2003]

SuperFast80

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73-454 - Banned
Toronto-C3 - Banned

454-73 - Soon to be banned?

George, looks like you owe Troy $5000:

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