WA 2 FST

First off, I haven't done all the work here...but farmed some of it out to a local shop who has a good reputation. They are not a forum vendor, so I will not name them, but I was very, very pleased with the customer service and workmanship. My schedule just didn't allow me to do all the work this time around.

My '69 BB roadster now has a Richmond 5-speed, offset trailing arms, Moroso road racing oil pan (for better ground clearance) and Hooker 2 1/8" sidemounted headers and pipes.

I want to thank the following members for their advice and thoughts with regards to my mods...Chuck Harmon, Dep, GDaina, and Flareside.

Initial thoughts on the 5-speed trans is that is was definitely the right choice over dropping a set of 4.11s in the rear and leaving the M21 in there. More expensive...yes, by a long shot, especially since I had to get a new clutch (Richmond has a 28-spline input vs. the M21 10-spline), new front driveshaft yoke, and the crossmember and trans mount had to be reworked considerably. This is one job that even if I'd decided to tackle it, I could not have completed, as the stock X-member was not going to work with this trans. The local shop did an awesome job, though, and it turned out really nice and its stronger than the stock stuff anyway.

With the new trans but keeping my 3.36 rear gears, I now have the equivalent of 4.4x gears in the rear when I'm in 1st ... had I kept the M21. That's the beauty...more TQ multiplication in the lower gears, but I can keep my 3.36 rear for cruising. 70mph at 3000rpm is not bad at all. The shifter is a bit notchy (went with the Hurst one), but I'll just have to get used to it.

I have a set of JCL baffles, but did not get them in time, and the shop installed the Hooker baffles they had in stock. You guys are right, those things are seriously restrictive. I did not realize how much so, but I bet I lost 40+ hp over 4500rpm compared to my other exhaust setup. The primaries are larger now, but I was shocked to look inside the sidepipes and see the Hooker glasspacks have an ID opening of ~1.5". That is just terrible. :( They are also too quiet for me.

So when I have time, I'm going to put the Spiral Tubes in there...or I may just run open for awhile. The exhaust is really choked right now. Engine pulls very well, but it falls off in the higher rpms ... enough that I can certainly feel it.

The owner before me put some spacers in the front springs in order to alleviate a clearance problem with the old exhaust and oil pan...so those were pulled and the front ride height is great now. The rear bolts were adjusted down as low as they would allow, but it still sits up too high. Nothing some longer Grade 8 bolts won't cure, but that needs to be done, too.

The Boyd Timeless 5 wheels should be here in mid-Jan. That should complete the project for awhile til I decide to yank the motor and do more work to it. :)




[Modified by WA 2 FST, 6:35 PM 12/21/2002]

67HEAVEN

Good to hear about your happiness with the Richmond tranny. That's my plan as well.

Would you mind talking about the "crossmember and trans mount had to be reworked considerably" issue? Others have made it sound fairly easy, with minimal modifications, although I think they are all C2 guys.

:thumbs:

WA 2 FST

67 HEAVEN,

I can send you a .jpg of the new crossmember (its completely new) that was fabricated. Send me your e-mail addy. I do not have the picture hosted on my website.

I didn't realize some cars have a welded-in X-member...some are bolted in. Mine was welded in. Everything was stock, so I don't know why mine would be different than anyone else's, but the trans was _not_ going to go in without dropping the x-member. Just wasn't gonna happen, no matter how much effort was made.

So mine had to be cut out and then a new one fabbed. They did this instead of modifying my stocker and rewelding it, so when I need to change a clutch, I can now just drop 4 bolts and it comes right out. :)

I am new to these vintage cars, so I have absolutely no clue on the differences b/w the C2 and C3.

I know some other guys report very little work with the 5/6-speed Richmonds, but that was not going to be the case on mine. However, I can say that the shifter and linkage bolted right up with no mods necessary to the floorpan. I've seen these installed in late model Mustangs and the trans tunnel had to be "massaged". That was not the case on my '69 Vette.

GDaina

That is strange, as the C3 and C3 frames are identical, for the most part. I did not have to modify my frame, but then again I pulled the motor and installed the motor and tranny together. Another trick is to pull the tranny's tail shaft housing, install the tranny, then install the housing.

Hey, the tranny is in, you are a happy cmaper, that's all that matters.. :cheers:

Bullyj

If I'm not mistaken I believe I saw a post that said automatics had bolt on cross members

Flareside

Wow Wes, you don't mess around! Sounds like you've got the car just where you want it. I wish I could move that fast!

If originality isn't a issue, the removable crossmember is a big improvement. I've heard of people putting the 5-speed in from the bottom with the stock welded crossmember, but they have had to move the engine forward a few inches, and remove the tail housing. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

Hey, didn't say that the engine was already fast enough? :lol: :lol: Motor work?

Chuck Harmon

Wes,

The car looks marvelous! What I really love is how you just went at it and now have the car virtually finished. I haven't had 5 minutes to work on mine since I first met you on the forum. Congratulations!! :thumbs:

You will love the 5 gears. It will become a little less notchy after a few miles and become very "snick snick". I sure wished you lived closer, I would love to get a closer look and maybe get lucky enough to get a ride in it!

Chuck

WA 2 FST

Chuck and Joe...

Thanks for the encouragement. :) I do like the 5-speed for sure. Much better than slapping some really low gears in the rear, but again...it was substantially more costly, too.

I'm well within my budget for the car, which is why I didn't mind farming out some of the work to a quality shop. Joe, I agree the removeable x-member will be nice in the future when I have to get in there and swap a clutch or whatever else may be the case.

As far as the motor goes...it was running really, really well before. Now that I have the really restrictive Hooker glasspack baffles in there.... Well, let's just say it killed the top-end capabilities of the motor. With the alum. heads and good LS6 intake, this is not a 4500rpm big-block. More like a solid 5600-6000rpm motor, and now with these pipes on there it just hurt it up top.

Doesn't matter too much. They will not be in there any longer than they have to be. I've got the JCL baffles here now, although I may yank the glasspacks and bolt it back up with no mufflers for a bit.

The only thing I might do the motor within the next year would be to go to a larger cam. I need to get it to the dyno first and see exactly where the powerband is, and make an assessment from there. The rotating assembly (all forged steel) and block (4-bolt main) will handle a lot more rpm. The heads are good, and so is the intake. I'd like to get a cam in there that would allow me to turn 6300-6500rpm. It's a Gen 6 block, so it has a hyd. roller cam/valvetrain currently.

Will post more pics when the new wheels/tires are here and I get the rear end lowered appropriately. :)

Thanks again for your advice and help.

Flareside

Wes, how does the Richmond compare to your Tremec? I'm curious about the gear whine and shifter stiffness. My Richmond is pretty loud in the first four gears, but I kinda like it. Have you ever hit 5th gear instead of 3rd? I do that every one in a while (even when I'm trying really hard not to), but it may be an issue with my Long shifter that doesn't exist with the Hurst or with a new/rebuilt Long.

Oh, and try not to christen those sidepipes too fast! Have you seen any of the old threads with the pictures of people's leg scars? It seems like every Hooker owner has done it at least once...

WA 2 FST

Joe,

I probably shouldn't draw conclusions this early, but the TKO is definitely a smoother trans than the Richmond from my initial impressions. The M21 was well broken in, and seemed to shift really well...about the same as the TKO. I'm sure the Richmond just needs some time, and possibly a little more linkage adjustment. It's just very, very stiff as far as the shifter goes, and remember that I am not that accustomed to external rail shifted trannies.

The clutch is new as well, so I just need some more seat time. I tried several very hard high-rpm 1-2 shifts and missed most of them to be honest, but I think I was probably off the clutch before I had fully engaged 2nd gear, and I just got blocked out of 2nd.

Normal shifting I had no issue at all hitting all the correct gears, although on downshifts I was taking it easy.

Gear whine? Remember I'm used to newer cars, so everything in this car seems to be louder...plus the top is always down when I'm driving, so I did not notice any real gear whine.

Re: sidepipes
Believe it or not it has been cool lately here in TX, so I've been wearing jeans. I stepped out once and felt it get kind of warm down there...but I'll figure it out fast. ;) Or else.... :lol:

Flareside

Thanks for the insight Wes. One of these days, I'm going to get a ride in a TKO car! :)

-Joe